Stiff cream

Silver · Oct 11, 2016

Hello Soapers, Creamers and all things fun!

I have a problem with my creams that I was hoping someone could help me out with. I tried out a number of recipes from craftymonkey (bless her soul, her blog is bursting with information) but her cream recipes are not quite turning out right for me. The last recipe that I tried was the lush dream cream duplicate:

Water phase
55% water / hydrosol
3% glycerin
1% silk protein

Oil phase
16% oil (camellia and a touch of evening primrose)
10% cocoa butter
3% stearic acid
1% cetearyl alcohol
8.5% Self Emulsifying wax N (from New Directions) (used as per 25% oil + 1% rule)

Cooldown:
1% extracts
1% Essential oils
0.5% Germall Plus (Preservative)

The lotion at Lush is rich and smooth like custard. My recipes however all turn out to be the consistency of over-whipped meringue that will hold its shape if you scoop it up with a spoon. Any clue whats wrong? Is it too much stearic acid, wrong proportion of the e-wax?

Many thanks!
Silver

cmzaha · Oct 12, 2016

With only 59% water and 12% thickeners and emulsifier I can imagine it is very thick. None of my emulsified butters go under 64% water phase including my foot lotion. I also do not go over 10 total of thickners and emulsifiers, usually I am in the 5% range for emulsifier the balance with cetyl alcohol or stearic acid. Are you just trying to get fluffier and less thick? You really did not say what you are looking for in a lotion. I just made a massage lotion/ emulsified butter for a massage therapist that is a dream to work with according to her. I added in 1.5% IPM & 1.5% Dimethicone using 68% Water/hydrosol/glycerin.

I would make up some test batches using different emulsifiers and liquid amounts. I find the Regular E Wax from The Sage (Cetearyl Alcohol & Ceteareth 20) with .6% Glyceryl Stearate gives a fluffy butter especially with Cocobutter. I would leave out the expensive oils and extracts until you get the feel you like. You could use sunflower oil or one of the kernel oils such as cherry for testing, and up your water phase. Although I am by no means an expert and only been playing with lotions for a year give or take I have shelves full of test lotions I have made with many different emulsifiers. Some I like and some are complete failures, but I find it takes a lot of testing. I have been working on a spray lotion, after 6 test batches the very first one is good, but not quite the feel I wanted while all the others separated so 1 out of 6 was a success. It takes lots of time and testing. One of my test batches waited 7 months to fail :-(. Good luck and hopefully you will get what you are looking for.

DeeAnna · Oct 12, 2016

I haven't picked it apart in detail, but my gut reaction -- To get a pudding or custard like texture, use less solid fat and more liquid oils, lower the emulsifier, and use more water.

I know Susan advocates for the 25% rule of thumb for the emulsifier dosage, but it's not a hard-and-fast thing. I've found that much emulsifier is usually too much. I use a generic e-wax or conditioning emulsifier (generic BTMS).

Also might want to change thickeners. Stearic acid tends to create a heavier cream cheese consistency. Haven't used cetearyl alcohol, but cetyl alcohol gives more of a lighter consistency more like sour cream.

As far as using two thickeners -- honestly, pick ~one~ and see how it works for you. If it doesn't contribute to the right texture, try the other. And ~then~ if you want something in-between, you can start mixing the two. But reduce your variables and learn what each one does on its own first.

Dahila · Oct 12, 2016

Use 2 % thickeners and no stearic at all, the ewax should be 7.5%, and cocoa butter is not so great if you want pouffe like lotion. I do not remember this from Swiftmonkey.......it is exactly like Susan's . Hm I make a lot of hers but i always modify hers. I do not like stearic at all. It is good in foot cream though, I has a staying power. Too much emulsifier thats for sure. Why did you add extra ? It is unnecessary. When I make my lotion using stick blender it does not come so good. The kitchen aid mixer does wonderful job though.
Susan went with lUsh dream list of ingredients and they have it in it. It should work.
Polawax which she suggest and Ewax are completely different feel

I would go with cetyl 2%. 25% rule; I tried to do less. With Bmts-50 which I use the most I use less than 20%

Silver · Oct 14, 2016

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions on this! I will definitely be making up a whole lot of test batches to check the ratio of oil to water to emulsifier to see which numbers will yield the right consistency for me =). I figured Susan's 25% oil ratio for the emulsifier was a rule, but I am glad to hear back from you guys and will definitely do some experimenting.
Many thanks!
Silver