You are right - there is no need to heat the water first. I only warm a bit of the water because I am impatient and it dissolves faster.
Speed up drying/curing time of CP soap?
- Thread starter orangeblossom
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You are right - there is no need to heat the water first. I only warm a bit of the water because I am impatient and it dissolves faster.
Thanks for reminding me!
I have some second-gel tests to finish off on cut bars (there seems to be an interesting effect that I need to explore further).
I have some second-gel tests to finish off on cut bars (there seems to be an interesting effect that I need to explore further).
SherylG
Active Member
If I don't have to heat the water first, then I will put the sugar and salt in before the lye and stir for a few seconds. I'll give that a try. I have usually added the sugar and salt to the hot lye water and stirred to dissolve. I don't remember having lumps or problems with it, but it's easy enough to avoid by adding before the lye, as long as the water can be cold. I'm basically fairly lazy. 
If I do put a mold in the oven, I will put a tray under it, for sure and thanks!
If I do put a mold in the oven, I will put a tray under it, for sure and thanks!
artemis
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I'm basically fairly lazy.
I'm with you!
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
I have done this a couple of times and noticed a musty smell to the soap and a weird plastic-ey texture to the soap.
Did you observe this too?
Definite yes on the plastic-ey texture! It became slightly more translucent to look at, which went away a little bit, but not completely.
Not sure on the smell, I didn't like the smell of this particular soap much anyway. I'll try to observe that for next time tho, thanks!
Not sure on the smell, I didn't like the smell of this particular soap much anyway. I'll try to observe that for next time tho, thanks!
I haven't done the "twice baked" thing, but I have warmed a number of batches after saponification -- basically doing a mild CPOP method -- because the soap didn't gel and I wanted it to. I haven't noticed the plastic texture or any off smell -- the soap just looked and smelled like normal gelled soap. But I think that's different than what you're all talking about?
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Definitely different. I did it a couple of times changing the heat as I thought I might have overheated it the first time. I tried warming it (100*C) - nothing happened still looked partially gelled. I went to 150* and 160*F for an hour - both times when it cooled it was like plastic and smelt musty and was still partially gelled.
I gave up after that!
Thanks for clarifying, PJ. I was a wee bit concerned -- musty smelling and plastic-y feeling are not qualities I want for my soap!
jcandleattic
Well-Known Member
Edited: nevermind - already answered several times.
jcandleattic
Well-Known Member
Why? I always gel my milk soaps, and they turn out great.
jcandleattic
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's still losing weight because they are curing, not saponifying. Saponification happens within (at the most a couple days) Saponification and cure are completely 2 separate things, and are not synonyms.
Also as I said, being rock hard or "as hard as they are going to get" does not mean they are cured.
But I feel that I am wasting my breath, so I'm out.
iwannasoap
Well-Known Member
Are they just as great 6 months from now? I am curious if the milk is not rancid. I think I said that earlier because someone puts sugar in theirs. Sugar is a fuel and a form of energy. I know my loafs get up to 200 degrees. Wouldn't that spoil the milk especially with sugar (if too much is added). Sugar can also turn it into a volcano I believe. Haven't had that problem myself yet but I know it can happen.
I honestly am curious and not being sarcastic.
iwannasoap
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, I understand that they are not cured and I don't think you were wasting your breath and I am sorry that you feel that way.
I don't cpop but almost all of my goat milk soap gels and it is great 2 years later (I only know because i have some I misplaced and found and it's still great!) But there is not any spoiled milk or rancidity
jcandleattic
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are just as good even up to a couple years later (I have so much soap, and always keep at least 1 bar out of every batch for myself)
I don't add sugar to my GM soaps, so I'm not sure about that, but I've never had a volcano, just the occasional crack down the middle when I make them in the summer, and the milk has never gone rancid, or spoiled and I've never gotten DOS in any of my milk soaps. (I've actually only gotten DOS once, but I'm also not in a very humid area, so I'm sure that helps along with many other factors)
SherylG
Active Member
I use sugar and goats milk and coconut milk. I have never had a crack or volcano or DOS in the milk soaps and it's great soap without souring years later. I have never had my soap get sour or rancid.
It's not all perfect, of course. I make the odd mistake making a batch occasionally that I have to fix for some reason or another but it has not ever been due to a crack or a volcano or sour-rancid smell.
Actually, I had more problems with the soap before I started using milk in them. I had DOS once in plain soap back when I first started and it occasionally would separate in the mold or turn out to be just hard fat instead of soap - not enough heat at mixing. Now that I use sugar and milk and mix around 115f, even 118f, that never happens. Its always soap
However, I also have never wrapped or insulated the cardboard soap box mold. I also scent and mold my soap batches outside (I'm in Canada) so it gets cooled down before going into the mold. I have worried that it's not warm enough. I'm relieved to find out that it heats itself up in the mold. (Hubby can't take the initial strong scent in the house.)
I don't know what would happen if I wrapped it all up or put it on a heating mat. I was thinking of doing that to get a "cooked" soap ready faster but I don't think I will now that I've heard the dangers of overheating. I will just cook in a pot on the stove or a slow cooker if I want cooked soap.
Even my hot cooked milk soap doesn't ever sour or get rancid.While I appreciate that it might be possible for a soap to overheat and cause a volcano, it's never happened to me and I've made more batches of soap over the past 30 years than I could ever hope to count. All of them with sugar from the start and most with milk as well.
I've made just about every mistake there is to make too...and still do, mostly due to my own stupidity and insistence on doing too many things at once. :roll:
It's not all perfect, of course. I make the odd mistake making a batch occasionally that I have to fix for some reason or another but it has not ever been due to a crack or a volcano or sour-rancid smell.
Actually, I had more problems with the soap before I started using milk in them. I had DOS once in plain soap back when I first started and it occasionally would separate in the mold or turn out to be just hard fat instead of soap - not enough heat at mixing. Now that I use sugar and milk and mix around 115f, even 118f, that never happens. Its always soap
However, I also have never wrapped or insulated the cardboard soap box mold. I also scent and mold my soap batches outside (I'm in Canada) so it gets cooled down before going into the mold. I have worried that it's not warm enough. I'm relieved to find out that it heats itself up in the mold. (Hubby can't take the initial strong scent in the house.)
I don't know what would happen if I wrapped it all up or put it on a heating mat. I was thinking of doing that to get a "cooked" soap ready faster but I don't think I will now that I've heard the dangers of overheating. I will just cook in a pot on the stove or a slow cooker if I want cooked soap.
Even my hot cooked milk soap doesn't ever sour or get rancid.While I appreciate that it might be possible for a soap to overheat and cause a volcano, it's never happened to me and I've made more batches of soap over the past 30 years than I could ever hope to count. All of them with sugar from the start and most with milk as well.
I've made just about every mistake there is to make too...and still do, mostly due to my own stupidity and insistence on doing too many things at once. :roll:
I always soap with sugar and some kind of milk. Have never had a volcano in 7 plus years and have never had a bar go rancid because of the milk. I would like proof that this happens since stated with so much authority. I have a few bars that are 5 plus years old and still perfectly good.
I put my molds in a flat crate and put a heating pad underneath the crate, because I fill my molds to the tippy top I cannot cover them. Also if there is any separation or leaking problems the crate will catch the mess. I also cover the crates with a blanket. My recipes will very seldom gel without nudging
I also use milks, sugars, and yogurts with no problems during gel. I do keep an eye on them for overheating. Not sure if it was in this thread but I think I remember something about sugar causing spoilage, this confuses me since sugar is used as a curing product for meats.
Shunt2011 said:
Me, too. I always make my milk soaps with added sugar and I always gel them, and like Jcandleattic, Shunt and SherylG, they gel without any issues. I've been soaping since 2005, and so far I've never developed rancidity in any of my milk soaps, nor have I experienced any volcanos from gelling them. For what it's worth, I always save a bar back from each batch for observation-sake and hold on to it for at least 2 years (oftentimes more), and none have ever developed rancidity.
Having said that, though, I have experienced goat milk going off in soap, but the soap was one made with a Melt & Pour base, which makes a world of difference since there's no active lye present in MP bases to chemically react with the milk as there is with CP going through saponification. The soap in question was made by soap-maker friend of my sis. She added fresh goat milk from her goats to her MP base, and over the course of a few weeks the soap developed a yucky vomit stench.
I'm not a scientist, so I'm not able to scientifically explain what kind of chemical processes take place that keep milks and finely-ground foodie ingredients from going bad in CP, but no matter what type of food I have added to CP (carrot juice, finely pureed avocado, fresh egg yolks, baby oatmeal, cucumber juice, goat milk, coconut milk, sugar, honey, etc....) none has ever gone rancid in my CP. The only time I've ever heard of rancidity or mold occurring in CP is when folks have used chunks of food (as opposed to liquids or finely pureed food). Chunks leave too much surface area un-exposed to the lye.
IrishLass
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