sorbitol and sodium citrate

[GIGITOM]

I have never used these and I am trying to follow a recipe that calls for sorbitol and sodium citrate added at 1% of oil weight. What is the purpose of using these? Do you put it in the soap calc as an additive ? At what stage do you incorporate it ?

60% lard
20% coconut oil
15% liquid oil of choice (olive, avocado, sweet almond, HO sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, rice bran)
5% castor oil

40% lye concentration
2% superfat
sorbitol and sodium citrate added at 1% of oil weight
what is the difference in sodium lactate and sodium citrate?

Sodium Lactate​

 

[Ekuzo]

Sorbitol makes soap more soluble and increases its lathering. Sodium citrate is a chelator - it helps in preventing DOS and soap scum, also helps lathering in hard water. Sodium lactate helps making the bar harder - you can also unmold earlier than usual. People report using lactate helps keeping their batter in liquid form for longer.

All 3 of them can be dissolved in the liquid for the lye solution, before adding the NaOH. And you need to add them as additives in the calculator.

These are the basics. I would suggest sticking to additives you know you want in your soap because of the properties they give - you can always go wrong by following given recipes. And a recipe like that with such lye concentration is sure to move fast, so be prepared. You may be able to get trace just by hand

 

[AliOop]

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to you.

 

[Ekuzo]

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to you.

I think I've read that before, that recipes high in lard don't get to trace that fast. But why though, it has plenty of palmitic/stearic acids? My lard bucket still stays unopened lol

 

[GIGITOM]

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to you.

I really want to try this recipe. So if it's 1 % of 30 ounces of oils. It would be .30 ounces each of additives?

 

[bookworm42]

I really want to try this recipe. So for a 31 oz batch how much of each (sorbitol and sodium citrate ) do you use . I is sodium citrate a liquid. And I am assuming you do put it in the lye water .Thanks so much

You'd be using about .3oz of each. (31*.01 in case your curious about the math.)
Sodium citrate is a powder and I put it and sugar/sorbitol in my lye water before the lye and let it dissolve. Once everything is disolved add your lye.

I've made a 500g and 1000g version of this recipe at 33% and it was very slow moving compared to other recipes. Not sure why though.

 

[AliOop]

I've made a 500g and 1000g version of this recipe at 33% and it was very slow moving compared to other recipes. Not sure why though.

It's the lard.

I really want to try this recipe. So if it's 1 % of 30 ounces of oils. It would be .30 ounces each of additives?

Correct. One reason that I normally work in grams is that there are less decimals points, and the math is so easy.

 

[AliOop]

I think I've read that before, that recipes high in lard don't get to trace that fast. But why though, it has plenty of palmitic/stearic acids? My lard bucket still stays unopened lol

Lard is just a slow-moving fat, although I have no idea why. But if you want a slow recipe that makes a white and hard bar of soap, lard is your friend.

 

[Ekuzo]

Lard is just a slow-moving fat, although I have no idea why. But if you want a slow recipe that makes a white and hard bar of soap, lard is your friend.

I guess it's one of those things that follow their own logic. Good to know, thanks

 

[Kari Howie]

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to you.

I just ran out of castor oil. How do you think this would be with

I recognize that recipe and hope you will love it as much as I do!

I agree with everything Ekuzo shared above, except that due to the high amount of lard, this is actually a fairly slow moving recipe for me, even with 40% lye concentration.

That being said, my lye solution is always room temp (because I make it ahead of time), and my hard oils are heated to 165ºF before mixing in room-temp soft oils and cooling the mix to 100ºF or less. The batter will definitely trace faster for you if your combined oils and lye solution are warmer than mine. Also, for a 900g/ 31oz batch, I only do two to three 1-second bursts with the stickblender, and hand-stir from there if needed.

Regardless, you are completely free to use a 33% lye concentration if that is more comfortable for you. Gelling the soap on a heating pad will help it firm up and unmold faster, especially if you do use more water.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't typically use sodium lactate in this high-lard, low-water recipe, especially since I always gel on a heating pad. With the amount of palmitic and stearic fatty acids in this mix, the soap is plenty firm enough without SL, and ready to unmold in 18 hours or less. However, if you won't be gelling it, or you plan to use more water (lower lye concentration), then SL may be of some benefit to you.

Hey, AliOop. I just ran out of castor oil. How do you think this recipe would turn out with 60% lard, 20% coconut, and 20% OO.

 

[AliOop]

I just ran out of castor oil. How do you think this would be with

Hey, AliOop. I just ran out of castor oil. How do you think this recipe would turn out with 60% lard, 20% coconut, and 20% OO.

I think it would be great! Honestly, castor is a bit of a wobbler for me. I notice a slight improvement in lather, but much less so now that I use sorbitol. Tell me what you think after you try it, please.