Sodium Lactate, first time using-advice?

[Johnez]

Hello all, I've got the hang of using sodium citrate for my chelator and would like to start using sodium lactate for pourability and other benefits. In my reading I've come across accounts of rubbery soap and other issues and understand that using multiple salts can be a bit of a gamble. I'm hoping to avoid that by staying in the low range for these salts and perhaps picking up some wisdom here. Any advice would be helpful. For context this is a 100 gram dual lye shave soap recipe (60/40 KOH/NaOH). I'm planning on using 1 gram sodium citrate with lye water and .25 teaspoon sodium lactate added at trace. Attached is complete recipe:

Edit-apologies for the slightly blurry screen shot, not sure how or why it appears like this, my file is clearer on my side. :-/

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

For me the strangest thing was knowing if it was done or not. The texture was so different from other hp that I did that I was so unsure about it being done. Be prepared to do the "Ztaged Zafety Zap Tezt" as it may very well not look done to you in comparison to how other batches looked done

 

[Johnez]

For me the strangest thing was knowing if it was done or not. The texture was so different from other hp that I did that I was so unsure about it being done. Be prepared to do the "Ztaged Zafety Zap Tezt" as it may very well not look done to you in comparison to how other batches looked done

Good to know, thanks for the heads up. I have read of the pouring benefits, but never considered the implication that it might not look "done" when it's done.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Stupid question: This is HP, isn't it? No point in adding things “at trace” in HP, because this is like adding it at 0.2% progress instead of 0%. You can add things to HP batter at any time .

That “at trace” thingie is a CPers' emergency compromise. They can't do anything to their batter throughout 99.8% of the reaction, but somehow want get troublesome ingredients into the batter just before casting (or, worse, based on the esoteric belief that the additives would be less exposed to lye attack).

For HP, it seems most popular to add lactate (sometimes in the form of yoghurt/buttermilk/kefir) as part of the post-cook recipe final montage (together with post-cook superfat, EOs/FOs and sensitive colourants). There are fabulous YT videos out there, where they liquefy big buckets of bubbling hot HTHP vaseline by stirring in the lactate.

I personally haven't had breakthrough successes with lactate and batter fluidity. My latest HP, though with considerable lactate load this time, wasn't easy to work with either. YMMV, but I haven't found any USP use of lactate at all.
My experience tells me that much more important than lactate, is to deal with bad heat retention and water losses to evaporation, particularly with small batch sizes.

 

[Johnez]

Stupid question: This is HP, isn't it? No point in adding things “at trace” in HP, because this is like adding it at 0.2% progress instead of 0%. You can add things to HP batter at any time

Yes, it is hot process, dang it I thought I covered all my background bases. Thanks for sussing that out, that must have been a confusing goal for those reading who work with cold process.

"At trace"....with hot process....lol. *Post cook*, thank you again RO.

I found a video (skip to about 27:19) that demonstrates the very clear impact sodium lactate has (this one also adds sugar and yogurt):



The fluidity isn't really on the same level as cold process however the batter is able to be poured, which is kind of what I'm interested in and the result is exactly what I'm after. You are right in controlling heat and water though. I've set my water at 38% which many soapers here don't like to do, but I wanted to ensure I had enough water to work with and really to stick to the recipe as written to end up with fewer surprises.

 

[AliOop]

I used to work often with HTFHP, although not shave soap specifically.

Adding the SL post-cook worked well for me - IF I made sure that it, along with the stirring utensil, were fairly warm. Otherwise, the cool temp of the SL and the whisk or spatula worked against fluidity.

FWIW, hot sugar water is also great for fluidity, so that’s a great method to add sugar for bubbles in HP.

 

[Johnez]

I used to work often with HTFHP, although not shave soap specifically.

Adding the SL post-cook worked well for me - IF I made sure that it, along with the stirring utensil, were fairly warm. Otherwise, the cool temp of the SL and the whisk or spatula worked against fluidity.

FWIW, hot sugar water is also great for fluidity, so that’s a great method to add sugar for bubbles in HP.

Thanks AliOop, these are some excellent tips.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I found a video (skip to about 27:19) that demonstrates the very clear impact sodium lactate has (this one also adds sugar and yogurt):

Exactly. Mine with the lactate looked rather like hers before she added the lactate & yoghurt. I wonder how much of this fluidity is due to the sugar, though? Sugar (polyol) is a popular “solvent” for making M&P base (which is up to this point exactly the same process, just that you add much more polyol, and the soap turns into an entirely clear liquid).
For my M soap, though, sugar would have been out of question – but maltose, or maltitol??? Why only come we up with this only now?


ETA: Lol, @AliOop was a few moments quicker!
@AliOop The lady in @Johnez' video tells around 26:51 that she had microwaved the SL and syrup right before.

 

[AliOop]

ETA: Lol, @AliOop was a few moments quicker!
@AliOop The lady in @Johnez' video tells around 26:51 that she had microwaved the SL and syrup right before.

Sorry, I hadn’t watched the video, but it sounds like we are all whistling to the same tune. Nothing new under the sun, I guess

 

[Johnez]

Thanks guys for emphasizing the heated ingredients and tools. That's the kind of thing I'd forget after watching and reading a ton of things.