Soaping temp question

[CTAnton]

I had a request for a soap that I haven't made in over a year. A year ago I recall no problems with it setting up too fast. I was even able at that time to do a swirl. This time no such luck. It's cool in the house so I soaped around 110F for the oils and a tad warmer for the lye solution.Here's the ratios:
10% Sunflower
30% Olive oil
30%Rice Bran
30% Coconut
added sugar and SL and used aloe juice as the liquid
I've got enough soap made of this formula at this time so I'm looking for direction for the next time I attempt this. I'm thinking soaping around 85F being the only hard oil is the 76 F coconut oil, adding an extra 5 degrees because of the cooler house.The FO is Midnight Breeze from American Soap Supplies. From the reviews no one else appears to have problems with this particular FO.I soaped with the FO in the oils in one batch and adding it at thin trace in another. The thin trace addition was workable, if barely. I wonder about gently warming the FO to some temperature closer to the oils temperature.
Just wondering.......

 

[Buckscent]

That's one reason I right everything down in a book for each soap I do down to the very smallest detail so I can go back and replicate it. Cooler temps will allow for slower trace. Mine is room temp for both oils and lye, 75-80 degrees. Plus what is your water ratio? You have more time with 38% than say 33%.

 

[DeeAnna]

Temps aren't the only thing that can affect time to trace. Your fats could have a higher % of free fatty acids that will react faster with the lye. Another big culprit is more stick blending rather than less.

 

[penelopejane]

I don't like RB oil at more than 10%.
It makes a soft bar for me at higher percentages.
I'd try and replace it with avocado or almond oil or something that is affordable in your area.

 

[CTAnton]

just an update:
I tried with another recipe to soap as close to 80F as the oils would allow. I've heard here that the oils should remain clear and when they started getting cloudy in went the lye solution. Minimal stick blending, just to bring to emulsion and then to incorporate some TD.Has anyone gone lower in temperature for the oils spite of cloudiness developing? This soap batter was thick cake batter quickly.Or am I to have to realize that there are those recipes that will NEVER allow for much of a swirl, however simple....

 

[DeeAnna]

You can get into false trace if you soap cool and your recipe is high in palm, tallow, or lard. Also I think the chance of "stearic spots" is higher under these conditions -- those are little lumps of soap that look like white freckles.

Since your recipe does not have any of these fats, you certainly could go cooler yet. I'm a little skeptical that this will solve your problem of faster trace -- I gather you think it's the FO that's accelerating things? -- but it can't hurt to try!

 

[CTAnton]

actually, I don't think its the FO.....I am curious about what makes for a "free"fatty acid....

 

[DeeAnna]

Free fatty acids are what happens to any oil on its way to going rancid, but you can't always tell this is happening by looking and smelling, because the fat is not yet actually rancid (as in different color and an "off" odor).

Free fatty acids are created when some chemical reaction splits the fatty acids off the glycerin backbone of a fat molecule. You can split the fat apart with an alkali (NaOH) and end up with soap, but fat will split apart in other ways too. Water can split fat into fatty acids in a process called hydrolysis. Exposure to UV light, metallic contaminants, higher temperatures, oxygen in the air, and other triggers can promote the process of splitting, but this reaction will happen simply from the passage of enough time. It's a natural process -- this breakdown of fats provides nutrients and energy so it's why fats are important to good nutrition.

Fats with double carbon bonds are more likely to split apart easier -- and go rancid faster -- which is why the polyunsaturated fats (fats with 2 or more double bonds) are more likely to have a short shelf life. But any fat does this sooner or later.

 

[penelopejane]

You can get into false trace if you soap cool and your recipe is high in palm, tallow, or lard. Also I think the chance of "stearic spots" is higher under these conditions -- those are little lumps of soap that look like white freckles.

Since your recipe does not have any of these fats, you certainly could go cooler yet. I'm a little skeptical that this will solve your problem of faster trace -- I gather you think it's the FO that's accelerating things? -- but it can't hurt to try!

Dee Anna it can happen with high OO too!