Soap tips for those with “mature skin”

[Blufuz]

Hi everyone!

I just got back from holidays with family and learned that my own mother was not using the soap I gave her because she was worried it would irritate her “mature skin”.
Since I can’t really test that for her before I give her any soaps, I was wondering if you all had any tips of what to include and what to avoid for a soap that’s good for older skin?

I figured that I would make something unscented and uncolored. then the question is what oils, what superfat, any additives? she lives with hard water so I’d usually add citric acid (adjusting the lye) but would that also be an irritant? She asked for low pH, does that matter and if so what can I do about it? Does salt or sugar help or hinder?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MomInWA]

Now that I have "mature" skin myself, I'll be watching this thread! I do know that skin and hair want acidity, so she's right to ask for low pH, but it's been so long since I thought about it I will be happy to hear what's new these days.

 

[AliOop]

You can't really lower the pH of handmade soap, or it "breaks" and is no longer soap, but a mess of free fatty acids. Besides, pH isn't the be-all-end-all cause of skin dryness.

For instance, I have mature, sensitive skin, and what matters most for me is keeping the cleansing number very low, and the conditioning number high. That means using very little coconut oil, palm kernel oil, and babassu oil; instead, I use either dual lye or sorbitol (or both) to create the fluffy lather that I like. Lard is a high-conditioning oil that agrees with my skin, but others prefer olive oil, or sweet almond oil.

My superfat is also pretty low since I didn't notice any difference to my skin by using more superfat, and the higher superfat caused a lot of soap scum with my semi-hard water.

Citric acid won't be a skin irritant because the NaOH converts it to sodium citrate, which is your chelator. Besides preventing soap scum, that also helps the soap lather more easily, and rinse off your skin more easily. And THAT makes it less drying, too.

I would encourage you to make a high-lard soap, and a high-OO soap (both with chelators) for your mom to try. Let her know that they are both gentle and high in conditioning properties. She can start with just handwashing before using them in the shower on her whole body. Everyone is different, so if both of those are too irritating for her skin, then she may indeed need a lower-pH syndet bar (but stay away from SLS since that's very drying and often irritating).

HTH, and let us know how it goes!

 

[Blufuz]

I would encourage you to make a high-lard soap, and a high-OO soap (both with chelators) for your mom to try. Let her know that they are both gentle and high in conditioning properties. She can start with just handwashing before using them in the shower on her whole body. Everyone is different, so if both of those are too irritating for her skin, then she may indeed need a lower-pH syndet bar (but stay away from SLS since that's very drying and often irritating).

HTH, and let us know how it goes!

Thank you so much!

How high is “high”? Usually high single oils also means longer cure times right? Not going to be in time for Christmas

 

[AliOop]

My high-lard bars are nicely cured within 8 weeks using this recipe, so definitely ready for Christmas if you make them in the next 2-3 weeks:

60% lard
20% CO or PKO or blend
15% OO or other liquid oil of choice
5% castor
2% SF

Additives (per weight of oils):
1% sorbitol
1% sodium citrate (you can use citric acid instead but adjust for lye).
Sometimes I add goat milk powder or colloidal oats (or both) at 2% as well.

I use 40% lye concentration and gel them on heating pad for 1 hour on high, then leave them insulated until ready to cut - usually 18 hours max. When I use 33% lye concentration, they aren't normally ready to cut until 24-28 hours, but other than that, they cure out the same. They are nice at 6 weeks but much nicer at 8 weeks. They aren't super long-lasting, but I gladly sacrifice longevity for the gentleness on my skin.


The ZNSB recipe that my good friend really likes is:

75% OO
20% CO/PKO or blend
5% castor
1% SF
40% lye concentration

I don't make faux sea water; instead, I add the sea salt and bicarb to my batch water (pre-lye). Simply multiply the total batch water by 1.9% to determine the amount sea salt, and by 1.7% to determine the amount of bicarb.

Other than that, I use the same lye concentration, additives, gelling, and curing process for the ZNSB as I do for my high-lard bars. They are really nice at 6 weeks. Of course they will last longer with a longer cure, but again, I don't care much about longevity. I don't sell, and the faster my bars get used up, the sooner I can have fun making more soap!

 

[Obsidian]

I keep the cleansing number between 11-15, any higher and its just too drying. I also can't use much olive, my skin hates it.

My mil who is in her 70s, likes my 80% lard, 20% coconut recipe.

I'm also testing recipes to use up some cocoa butter and palm, so far this one is really nice

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I love Switzerland! My dear hubby and I spent 6 days in Interlaken and used our Eurail passes every day to visit a different town each day. I remember being reminded of Evergreen, Colorado. The native plants and flowers were the same. I felt very much at home there.

my own mother was not using the soap I gave her because she was worried it would irritate her “mature skin”.

I have dry, sensitive mature skin. I don't know how old your mother is but I am 80.

make something unscented and uncolored.

Good thinking. The soap I wash my face with AM and PM daily is unscented and uncolored.

she asked for low pH, does that matter

It doesn't matter to me. You have a choice. pH around 7.5 and lower, Syndets (synthetic/detergent) bars are doable. The soaps I make are lye-based and you can't go much lower than pH 8.5-9 or the emulsion will break and the soap will separate.

Lye-based soaps are generally pH 9-11 but it really isn't worth the time and trouble to try to reach lower than that. pH 11 is generally accepted as good within the soapmaking community.

Does salt or sugar help or hinder?

I don't use sugar at all to increase lather. I formulate with the high lathering oils to avoid adding sugar. But that's just me.

Salt is for hardening a formula, especially castiles and bastiles like @AliOop's ZNSB recipe which is a variation of ZNSC:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
That is the one that I use daily. The dense creamy lather is like washing my face with cold cream, without the greasy after feel. It leaves my skin feeling clean, refreshed and not "tight" at all. I highly recommend you make a small 450-500 gram test batch. You don't have to wait a year for it to cure. I start using it at the 2-week mark, altho the longer the cure, the better it gets.

For me, I make 85% Olive Oil (or Almond Oil), 10% coconut, 5% castor.



NOTE: It's best to follow the recipe exactly the first time around. Then tinker with it if you like. I mean, don't we all do that?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Not going to be in time for Christmas

No longer true. It used to take a week before unmolding and another week to cut, and 3 months (minmum) to cure for 100% olive oil (or almond oil)

ZNSC is a game-changer. It's ready to unmold and cut fairlly soon as demonstrated in the video posted above. I start using it at 2 weeks, but I think it peaks around 6 weeks. The really neat thing is, it keeps its shape to the very end -- even as long as a year later, I can smush the last sliver into a new bar and it's ready to go. No waste!

 

[KiwiMoose]

She could be holding on to some urban myths about soap (e.g - when grandma made soap...). What does she currently use? Does that irritate her mature skin? Why/why not? You need to 'sell' it to her by comparing to what she uses already. If she is using a syndet liquid soap you have two very different animals. If she is using Dove, then you can tell her what most of us have noticed - hand made soap is way better/gentler.

 

[K.C.]

I have middle aged sensitive skin and after several recipes over the years I jumped in a lard thread here last fall and i've never looked back. I do 65% lard 20% CO 10% RBO 5%Castor, 3%SF, sorbitol and SL. lately ive been tweaking with various amounts of Kokum butter and avocado oil instead of RBO. I haven't heard back from all my testers yet but the sample bars seem very nice.

Still love the original lard recipe

 

[AliOop]

I have middle aged sensitive skin and after several recipes over the years I jumped in a lard thread here last fall and i've never looked back. I do 65% lard 20% CO 10% RBO 5%Castor, 3%SF, sorbitol and SL. lately ive been tweaking with various amounts of Kokum butter and avocado oil instead of RBO. I haven't heard back from all my testers yet but the sample bars seem very nice.

Still love the original lard recipe

That is so similar to mine - it is a wonderful soap. For whatever reason, my skin loves high lard and doesn't like high-OO soaps. But high-OO works best for my close friend, and I enjoy making it for her.

 

[Blufuz]

She could be holding on to some urban myths about soap (e.g - when grandma made soap...). What does she currently use? Does that irritate her mature skin? Why/why not? You need to 'sell' it to her by comparing to what she uses already. If she is using a syndet liquid soap you have two very different animals. If she is using Dove, then you can tell her what most of us have noticed - hand made soap is way better/gentler.

She used Dove when we lived in the states, but in Italy she found Neutro Robert’s, which seems to be a tallow-based soap:

This looks mostly like soap, with similar ingredients to what we use for handmade soap.

I figured I’d aim to make a similar shaped white bar though, also so psychologically it’s not too different.

 

[AliOop]

You could totally dupe that bar! I’d start with 80% tallow and 20% coconut oil, and then usual ratios of salt and the named chelators. Maybe 3% SF and then whatever lye concentration you prefer for CP. This should trace quickly and harden quickly, esp if you soap warm.

You don’t need to add glycerin as that’s a natural by-product of soapmaking. They only have it listed bc they show out-of-the-pot ingredients.

Edit: if you don’t have sodium citrate, just use citric acid and adjust your lye for that. You will end up with sodium citrate.

 

[K.C.]

That is so similar to mine - it is a wonderful soap. For whatever reason, my skin loves high lard and doesn't like high-OO soaps. But high-OO works best for my close friend, and I enjoy making it for her.

@AliOop I believe you were the one that suggested RBO to me. I had it one hand but hadn't thought about it at all. thanks again!!

 

[BirchandTallow]

I keep the cleansing number between 11-15, any higher and its just too drying. I also can't use much olive, my skin hates it.

My mil who is in her 70s, likes my 80% lard, 20% coconut recipe.

I'm also testing recipes to use up some cocoa butter and palm, so far this one is really nice

Cocoa Butter and palm make really great skin lotions. You can thin it out with HO Sunflower Oil to make it softer at room temp. The trick is to use a hand-mixer with a whisk attachment on the lowest setting. Clear your schedule, because you will be mixing for about an hour to get it to a nice fluffy whipped cream like consistency. You can add BTMS-25 or 50 too if you have it handy, but it's not necessary.

 

[Quilter99755]

I'm 81 and live in the high desert area. My soaps vary in percentages of lard, RBO sweet almond and cocoa butter (I bought a big bag and need to put it in everything I make these days) and maybe 5% CO if I want a little bit more bubbles. I play around with the percentages depending on what I have on hand. But overall I keep the cleansing in single digits and the conditioning in the 50's. SF is 2% due to soap scum with our hard water and add sodium citrate and sorbitol and occasionally GMP. I lotion hands, feet and elbows after my shower and if I'm cleaning or gardening my hands will need a little more lotion, but for the most part that is it. No itches. I usually cure my soaps for 6 weeks but 8 is a little better.

@KiwiMoose might have hit the nail on the head...I always thought handmade soap was harsh after hearing my mother's stories.When my skin started itching in my 60's I tried everything...and bought into the Dove commercials...total rot! Luckily I was gifted a bar of hand made soap from a friend and it was instant relief from the itches. Well, maybe it took two showers to make a difference but it was quick. As I have aged, I changed to lard and reduced the CO to zero or almost zero. Get her to at least try it out...on her hands even...It will make a difference

 

[Tammyfarms]

I also vote for a lard based soap. I am 58 and live in a climate that is very dry during the summer and cold in the winter. We heat with wood so in the winter our home is very dry. I have a current experiment with 75% lard and tallow soaps. It’s too early to test them but I’m looking forward to it. My normal recipe is 45% lard and similar to others above. Sometimes Shea instead of cocoa butter. I’m not at home so I can’t look it up.

My mom made lard soap when I was a kid and that stuff would practically strip the skin off your body. The recipes recommended here are nothing like mom’s soap.

Best of luck. Hoping you can convert your mom. Oh, I had given a friend some soap a few months ago. When I asked if she likes it, she said she hadn’t used it but her husband likes it. About a week later she said she tried it and wants to buy some for Christmas presents.