Soap Making with NaHCO3

[maria6]

Thank you very much, LBussy, for the pdf file!
It will be helpful for me.
Of course, I will not create a huge amount of soap at first.
I was thinking about 500-700g for a start.

Aren't hand made soaps supposed to be of better quality than commercial, as you can use no chemicals or colorants and your soap will be 100% natural?
I am confused about this.
I have used hand made all-natural soaps and they are much better than soaps I buy from the stores.

EDIT: Can you recommend a good lye calculator?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

...............Aren't hand made soaps supposed to be of better quality than commercial, as you can use no chemicals or colorants and your soap will be 100% natural?
I am confused about this.
I have used hand made all-natural soaps and they are much better than soaps I buy from the stores.

Technically hand-made soaps do use chemicals (as everything is a chemical!) and there is no real meaning to the term 100% natural. While all of the ingredients can be found in nature, they are often made in a factory (such as the lye) and I have seen people selling "All Natural" soap containing fragrence oils which are certainly NOT found in nature.

But I know what you mean - hand made soap usually has none of the unnatural or more questionable chemicals thrown in there.

 

[maria6]

Of course, I understand that even H2O is a chemical substance.
You got the idea of what I meant.
Hand made natural soaps are supposed to be made of ingredients found in nature, not chemically created, which may cause undesired effects on the skin.
Usually natural soaps are suitable for most types of skin.

 

[LBussy]

Hand made natural soaps are supposed to be made of ingredients found in nature, not chemically created, which may cause undesired effects on the skin.
Usually natural soaps are suitable for most types of skin.

Hand made soaps are able to express creativity not always possible in commercial soaps. However a person down the street who hands you a bar of soap is technically held to the same guidelines as a commercial soap maker ... but who's checking? A home soap maker can put anything they like in their soap and who is responsible for proving they are not harmful let alone good for you?

Another consideration is consistency. I brew beer for instance and like with beer it's common for people to knock commercial products and assume homemade is always better. Generally it takes a very advanced brewer to realize that making Budweiser is hard; making Budweiser the same way every time in several different factories is a monumental achievement. The same is true of the good commercial soaps.

Lastly, natural does not mean not having undesirable effects on the skin. We use lye; improperly used you can peel the skin off and remove your hair. We use essential oils many of which are known allergens. Some of the EO's can foster a bad sunburn if used and then you are exposed to the sun for an extended period. The best example I can think of representing natural and found in nature yet way less desirable than a commercial bar of soap is poison ivy.

What you CAN say however is you get to choose what goes in your soap, independant of consumer panels and accountants. Choose well and you will be rewarded. Choose poorly and you may still find yourself sensitive to what you put in there.

 

[DeeAnna]

I agree with The Gent and Lee. Well said. Hear, hear, gentlemen!

 

[El_Granado_Loco]

Late personal thanks from me as well, DeeAnna!!! I was very curious about this as I 've seen a lot of articles lately stating you can have soap this way (and didn't believe it either). I suppose it 's appealing as most people are not willing to be exposed to NaOH...

 

[DeeAnna]

It is perfectly accurate to say "you can't make soap without lye".

What is considered to be a lye can vary, however -- from the strong alkali chemicals like KOH and NaOH to weaker alkalis such as soda ash, pot ash, and sodium bicarbonate. For the regular soaper, the strong alkalis are going to be the most practical because these chemicals can do the job on their own with the aid of a stick blender and perhaps a bit of heat.

When using the weaker alkalis directly to make soap, a "boiled" soaping process is needed to drive the saponification reaction to completion. It's not at all the same as making a CP or HP soap. There's a reason why our grandmothers switched to NaOH and KOH from the older methods of using soda ash and lime or using wood ashes -- they wanted a clean, straightforward, reliable method of making soap.

 

[girlishcharm2004]

I have seen people selling "All Natural" soap containing fragrence oils which are certainly NOT found in nature.

Oh my goodness, I hate seeing that!

...a person down the street who hands you a bar of soap is technically held to the same guidelines as a commercial soap maker ... but who's checking? A home soap maker can put anything they like in their soap and who is responsible for proving they are not harmful let alone good for you?

You'll have to prove me wrong, but I don't believe this is completely accurate. A person who hands you a bar of soap is not selling and is not held to any guidelines as a commercial soap maker.

That aside, I'm assuming the difference between the commercial soap maker and small-cottage soap maker, is a matter of chemical additives and "natural ingredients" respectively. In that case, they still wouldn't be held to the same guidelines because once a detergent is thrown into a soap, it's now a cosmetic.
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulations/ucm074201.htm#Soap

Anyhow, it sounds like the original poster has personally experienced detrimental effects of synthetic "soap", and prefers real soap (granted, that it be made well). No need to nitpick the choice of words, "all natural".

 

[LBussy]

You'll have to prove me wrong, but I don't believe this is completely accurate. A person who hands you a bar of soap is not selling and is not held to any guidelines as a commercial soap maker.

You might give a read to the theory of "Common Law." If you give something to someone that causes them harm and you are found to not have exercised reasonable precautions (those found by case law to be reasonable) then you may be held liable. Just because you are not subject to casual inspection by the FDA or the CPSC does not mean that you are not held (or could not be held) to the same standards once you give it to someone else.

In cases such as this where we are talking about natural vs not, you are talking about a civil case where one would have to prove an actual loss. Since you are giving your soap away the receiver's loss would be negligible. If however you said it was all natural, then the person has a skin reaction to some unknown "fragrance", then they will have had a "loss" and you could be liable for it.

 

[girlishcharm2004]

You might give a read to the theory of "Common Law." If you give something to someone that causes them harm and you are found to not have exercised reasonable precautions (those found by case law to be reasonable) then you may be held liable. Just because you are not subject to casual inspection by the FDA or the CPSC does not mean that you are not held (or could not be held) to the same standards once you give it to someone else.

In cases such as this where we are talking about natural vs not, you are talking about a civil case where one would have to prove an actual loss. Since you are giving your soap away the receiver's loss would be negligible. If however you said it was all natural, then the person has a skin reaction to some unknown "fragrance", then they will have had a "loss" and you could be liable for it.

That's interesting about the law. I will have to look into that.

Aside from legal technicalities, do you have a better word for "all natural"? The reason I ask is because I find it difficult to describe something as "being free of synthetic irritants". For example, I gave some soap to a friend and she told me it was the only soap she had tried that relieved her skin issues (detergents and/or fragrance both in laundry and commercial soap were causing her to develop rashes). Personally, while a "well-made, natural" soap can benefit me and a poorly made soap can harm me, I have never experienced any degree of benefit from detergent soaps or "natural" soaps with propylene glycol added (that eliminates all melt and pour soaps). I will only experience varying degrees of rashes and irritation. Your argument that "natural" things can harm is accurate, but, in my experience, synthetic irritants have never benefited. I would welcome any terminology because it's a fine line and very difficult to describe.

Also, I have digestive issues due to adulterated foods. People ask me if I'm gluten-free, lactose-intolerant, etc. but it's hard to explain that as long as it's "real food" (and in the right proportions) then I'm fine. Nitrites/nitrates cause headaches, pasteurized milk causes upset intestines (as opposed to raw milk which I can drink perfectly fine with benefited nutrition), and GMO foods cause flare-ups with my... reproductive condition. How do I explain that I just need regular, real food? People will ask me to make a list for them so they know what to avoid, and the thing is, I can't think up every single "chemical" (for lack of a better word) that will be used as an additive in food -- just use "real" food.

So... that's the dilemma.

 

[Chefmom]

That's interesting about the law. I will have to look into that.

Aside from legal technicalities, do you have a better word for "all natural"? The reason I ask is because I find it difficult to describe something as "being free of synthetic irritants". For example, I gave some soap to a friend and she told me it was the only soap she had tried that relieved her skin issues (detergents and/or fragrance both in laundry and commercial soap were causing her to develop rashes). Personally, while a "well-made, natural" soap can benefit me and a poorly made soap can harm me, I have never experienced any degree of benefit from detergent soaps or "natural" soaps with propylene glycol added (that eliminates all melt and pour soaps). I will only experience varying degrees of rashes and irritation. Your argument that "natural" things can harm is accurate, but, in my experience, synthetic irritants have never benefited. I would welcome any terminology because it's a fine line and very difficult to describe.

Also, I have digestive issues due to adulterated foods. People ask me if I'm gluten-free, lactose-intolerant, etc. but it's hard to explain that as long as it's "real food" (and in the right proportions) then I'm fine. Nitrites/nitrates cause headaches, pasteurized milk causes upset intestines (as opposed to raw milk which I can drink perfectly fine with benefited nutrition), and GMO foods cause flare-ups with my... reproductive condition. How do I explain that I just need regular, real food? People will ask me to make a list for them so they know what to avoid, and the thing is, I can't think up every single "chemical" (for lack of a better word) that will be used as an additive in food -- just use "real" food.

So... that's the dilemma.

I know what you mean!!

I am not allergic to things, not in the usual allergic sense. I am very sensitive though and can have different reactions to different things.

I use the term "Chemically Sensitive" to describe it, not allergic, but sensitive to a wide range of synthetic items, I think its a better way to describe myself without trying to pinpoint the MANY issues.

 

[LBussy]

I think the best, easiest, most "gotcha" free way to do it is to list the ingredients and just call it soap. Actually with bath and body soap you don;t even have to list the ingredients (shaving soap you do). As soon as you claim it has some therapeutic benefit, even if that is avoiding issues form other sources, I think you have entered into the category of cosmetics and drugs and that's a place you should stay away from if you can avoid it.

Have I ever benefitted from synthetic detergents? Yes. Chemicals make the world go around and I have a hard time connecting synthetic with bad. Each have different properties however and I am fully okay with believing some properties are good for some and not for others. I want to be careful to say I do not dispute what you are saying about your personal sensitivities, I just wonder that these didn't seem to be so prevalent 20 years ago when people were more oblivious to what chemicals were in their foods? It seems difficult to connect "cooking" and thoroughly emulsifying milk with an upset stomach - can you have a latte? I dunno.

I am thoroughly happy for you that you found a way to be more comfortable and healthy. I just wonder what we've done to ourselves to raise a generation of lactose intolerant, peanut butter fearing people?

 

[goji_fries]

I think the best, easiest, most "gotcha" free way to do it is to list the ingredients and just call it soap. Actually with bath and body soap you don;t even have to list the ingredients (shaving soap you do). As soon as you claim it has some therapeutic benefit, even if that is avoiding issues form other sources, I think you have entered into the category of cosmetics and drugs and that's a place you should stay away from if you can avoid it.

Have I ever benefitted from synthetic detergents? Yes. Chemicals make the world go around and I have a hard time connecting synthetic with bad. Each have different properties however and I am fully okay with believing some properties are good for some and not for others. I want to be careful to say I do not dispute what you are saying about your personal sensitivities, I just wonder that these didn't seem to be so prevalent 20 years ago when people were more oblivious to what chemicals were in their foods? It seems difficult to connect "cooking" and thoroughly emulsifying milk with an upset stomach - can you have a latte? I dunno.

I am thoroughly happy for you that you found a way to be more comfortable and healthy. I just wonder what we've done to ourselves to raise a generation of lactose intolerant, peanut butter fearing people?

Perfect summation

 

[girlishcharm2004]

I think the best, easiest, most "gotcha" free way to do it is to list the ingredients and just call it soap.

Sorry, I need to clarify. It seemed like you had a long post explaining that natural can be bad and synthetic can be good after the original poster said she was looking to make "all natural" soap. What could she have said differently to get the point across? The Gent seemed to understand what she meant, even though he pointed out that everything is a chemical as well. Could she have said she wants to make "real soap" as it is much better than soaps she buys from the store? I mean, I'll be honest here, getting a lecture every time one mentions that they are trying avoid "chemicals" is... well, frustrating. Anyhow, this is a long detour from the original topic. I'll leave it at that.

As for the milk, I think it's the homogenization that causes my upset stomach. A friend of mine said she couldn't drink any pasteurized milk that contained fat -- only skim milk. I tried it and it worked, but it was nasty as heck. I went through a phase in life where I was constantly breaking bones -- stepped off the porch and broke my foot, bumped into someone and broke my nose, etc. I was just crumbling. I went to the doctor for an unrelated issue and got all my blood work done -- ALL of my vitamins and minerals were deficient (while I was drinking pasteurized/homogenized whole milk to the detriment of my stomach). Also, coincidentally, I had gone to a raw milk presentation that same day as the blood work and began drinking that until my next blood work was taken 8 weeks later. Lo and behold, all my results were normal. A life time of pasteurized milk left me deficient, but two months of raw milk caught my health back up. It's not scientific research by any means, but I haven't broken a bone since and my stomach doesn't hurt. Annnd, that was way off topic too, but I just wanted to share that.

 

[LBussy]

Off topic is what we DO here.

 

[mobe_45]

Any strong alkali will react to make soap. In Palestine one soap factory still uses baking soda to make their soap the old way. It's a 3 ingredient soap. baking soda, oil, water. Only 500 kilos a day.

 

[David James]

Sounds like Nablus. Or maybe all of the Palestinian soaps are made that way. The swear it is only olive oil, baking soda, water, and a bunch of added heat.

Look here and jump to about the 40 seconds point to get to the recipe: