shaving soap numbers check

[gladly]

I figured a recipe of castor, lard, shea butter, mango butter, soybean and coconut and managed to get up to 20 stearic. Anxious to give it a try, but nervous about how soft it's gonna be. :roll:

Would adding sodium lactate at 1% or a salt water solution (I usually do 3 oz water, 2 tsp salt and include in liquid) affect that low creamy lather much you think?

 

[Lindy]

Your stearic is no-where near high enough @20......

 

[gladly]

The posts that were linked said 20-25, no?

1) Formulate your recipe in such a way that it has at least 20% stearic acid in it.

Are the numbers on soap calc not percentages?

 

[Lindy]

When you are talking Stearic numbers they are coming from the fatty acid composition and the stearic sits in the saturated column. So when using Soapcalc you will find the stearic numbers on the right hand side of the soap bar qualities. Your stearic number should never be less than 40 and if you are wanting to market this to hard-core wet shavers don't include olive oil in your recipe as they will tear you apart. Tallow, lanolin, coconut oil, palm oil and any other oil including lard is accepted in a shave soap, but olive, not so much because they simply don't understand what olive brings to the party.

Have fun..... I love developing new recipes.

 

[marghewitt]

I attempted my first shaving soap recipe today after reading this whole thread.
It seized. First for me. Poop. Oh well I got my potato masher and added the bentonite clay anyway and put it on the burner and just kept mixing and mixing and mixing. At least I only made a 2 pound batch but used some really, really good ingredients. I am praying it works out anyway. I am hoping someone will read the recipe and see if they can figure out what happened. By the way my house smells amazing. I used equal parts of Pine EO, Cedar EO and Bay Rum FO.
Olive oil pomace 20%
Stearic Acid 16%
Castor Oil 14%
Coconut oil, Palm oil, Mango Butter, Shea Butter and Tallow all at 10% each. I also added 10% Glycerin 7% superfat no water discount.
I spooned the mixture into plastic tubing to harden.
Hardness 47
Cleansing 8
Conditioning 50
Bubbly 20
Creamy 52
Iodine 50
INS 147
The stearic number on the far right of the chart was 28.

 

[Lindy]

You're going to have to HP to get a decent shave soap as the stearic is going to seize and you need to increase it still higher. Get it to a minimum of 35... the higher the better.

 

[sudbubblez]

You recipe looks really good! I think your fast trace might have come from the EOs or FOs. I have used Cedar EO mixed with the base oils and I got something near an instant trace. I cant comment on the others as I havent used them but FOs are also culprits for seizing. Both fat and lye is soluble in alcohol. the alcohol makes the lye and oils more readily available to eachother, thats why it speeds things up.

You can help the seizing by pouring the lye into the oil very slowly while your SB is operating. Think a stream about the width of a pencil or smaller. If the batter is going to seize up at least you will have it mixed better before it happens by doing this.

 

[Lindy]

Stearic Acid causes seizing, every single time which is why you need to HP it..... You shouldn't even be thinking about adding FO or EO until the end of the cook.... trust me on this...

 

[sudbubblez]

Her recipe is very similar to mine in regards to total steric content and hardness, cleansing, iodine and ins numbers, and I don't have to HP it and can pour into the mold. I noticed when I add glycerin at trace the batter becomes more fluid and slows down. I've used essential oils of eucalyptus, black pepper and tea tree, and it didn't accelerate, but I had also blended the EOs with the clay untill the clay absorbed it, then added the clay to the base oils. Using the stick blender on high is going speed trace as well.

I have not tried a 35% steric yet and if I have to HP that, Ionwanna.

Your INS numbers will also tell you how fast your soap is going to trace, if its going to gel easy, and how fast its going to saponify. the higher the INS the swifter its going to turn into soap. your INS isn't high so this indicates the seizing came from an EO or FO, or possibly soaping too cold.

 

[marghewitt]

Well it hardened with some liquid at the bottom of the bag. It also crumbles like old loose morter! Guess I am tossing it in the trash. Why is it that the stearic acid content needs to be so high?

 

[IrishLass]

Your stearic number should never be less than 40 and if you are wanting to market this to hard-core wet shavers don't include olive oil in your recipe as they will tear you apart. Tallow, lanolin, coconut oil, palm oil and any other oil including lard is accepted in a shave soap, but olive, not so much because they simply don't understand what olive brings to the party.

Have fun..... I love developing new recipes.

Hmmm...I've not heard this before (about total stearic content needing to be no less than 40%). Not that it wouldn't hurt to get it up that high, mind you, and it might be worth an experimental try for me sometime in the future, but I've always been told no less than 20% by my shave soap mentors, which is what I use, and it works beautifully for me. My hubby loves my shave soap- he never gets cuts with it and it never dries him out. And I also have a special shave soap tester/afficianado from one of the shaving forums who has used my soap and has given me honest feedback which has helped me to refine my formula. He also loves my shave soap and has told me it's good enough that he would even gladly buy it. For what it's worth, I use olive oil in my formula and he's never so much as even batted an eyelid at me over its inclusion. I seemed to have gotten one of the nicer, gentlemanly afficianados who was willing to let the proof be in the pudding, so to speak without questioning my choice of ingredients besides tallow (he was very glad it contained tallow). Some of the other shaving afficianados on those forums can be quite fanatical about their ingredients for sure! :shock:

Her recipe is very similar to mine in regards to total steric content and hardness, cleansing, iodine and ins numbers, and I don't have to HP it and can pour into the mold.

Similar to mine, too- only my total stearic is 20% and my hardness is 44. I never have to HP mine either unless I'm using a finicky/fast moving FO. I soap it on the warm side between 130 to 135F to prevent pseudo-trace and it goes quite smoothly for me.

I have not tried a 35% steric yet and if I have to HP that, Ionwanna.

I'm with you- I don't think Ionwanna either!

Sat Why is it that the stearic acid content needs to be so high?

For hardness and also for stable, creamy lather, although I am of the opinion (based only on my own shave soap, mind you) that it does not have to be as high as 40%.

IrishLass

 

[gladly]

Most vendor sites say that you shouldn't add stearic acid itself over 0.5-1% to avoid a crumbly or brittle soap. Could be the "old mortar" problem you had. I can't speak from experience on that one, as I have only used it for making cream soap and not in any CP or HP.

Confirm/deny anyone?

 

[sudbubblez]

Well it hardened with some liquid at the bottom of the bag. It also crumbles like old loose morter! Guess I am tossing it in the trash. Why is it that the stearic acid content needs to be so high?

I don't think you have to toss it. Soap will separate if it wasn't stirred enough, which is likely what happened since it seized and made stirring difficult. Separations are easily fixed with rebatching.

 

[marghewitt]

Yikes. Well I will finish crumbling it up and put it in the crock pot with some water or maybe milk and see what I can do with it. Any suggestions on saving it would be greatly appreciated. I would also love a proven recipe. It is sad that so many soapers are soooo protective of thier recipes and won't share.

 

[sudbubblez]

HP / rebatching is a really forgiving process. If its really fresh you may only need a touch of water/milk. You will lose your fragrances though. Everything goes in, even the goo and liquid that separated. Treat it like hot processing and let it go through all the stages until it gets to looking translucent like vaseline. Too much water isn't going to hurt it but it will cause shrinkage when they cure.

 

[sudbubblez]

Most vendor sites say that you shouldn't add stearic acid itself over 0.5-1% to avoid a crumbly or brittle soap. Could be the "old mortar" problem you had. I can't speak from experience on that one, as I have only used it for making cream soap and not in any CP or HP.

Confirm/deny anyone?

I am going to deny. I have taken to adding it at 10% in some of my recipes. Adventures with the sage had a blog post that detailed a single oil soap made from only steric, that stuff was brittle and crumbly but it was also 100% steric.

 

[Hazel]

It is sad that so many soapers are soooo protective of thier recipes and won't share.

Many soapers have spent a lot of time and money developing their recipes so I can understand why they want to keep their formulations proprietary. Someone commented that coming on this forum and asking for a recipe is comparable to walking into McDonald's and asking for their Big Mac sauce recipe. Of course, that recipe has been leaked and you can find it if you google.

I think it's generous of the soapers to offer their help in teaching people to formulate their own recipes. I've been following this thread and trying to formulate a shaving soap recipe. I don't know if I'll ever make it but I like tweaking the recipe according to the advice from other members. It also helps to remind me of what qualities each oil brings to a recipe. I learn more from reading and researching as opposed to someone giving me a recipe. As an example, I wouldn't know what the problem is if someone gave me a recipe and it didn't turn out correctly. By understanding the properties of the oils, I'd have a better idea of what might have gone wrong and how to fix it.

The important thing to remember is they are sharing - they are sharing their knowledge and experience by teaching other members how to create recipes. I'm grateful they're willing to be members and help others learn new skills.

 

[marghewitt]

It is sad that so many soapers are soooo protective of thier recipes and won't share.

Many soapers have spent a lot of time and money developing their recipes so I can understand why they want to keep their formulations proprietary. Someone commented that coming on this forum and asking for a recipe is comparable to walking into McDonald's and asking for their Big Mac sauce recipe. Of course, that recipe has been leaked and you can find it if you google.

I think it's generous of the soapers to offer their help in teaching people to formulate their own recipes.
The important thing to remember is they are sharing - they are sharing their knowledge and experience by teaching other members how to create recipes. I'm grateful they're willing to be members and help others learn new skills.

You are right of course and I really do appreciate all the helpful information and the advice based on trial and error. Guess I was a little frustrated I have googled shaving soap recipes and it seems the majority of the recipes online are vastly different from what is suggested in the forums. I will figure it out eventually I guess. Thanks everyone you are all wonderful to share your experiences here.

 

[Hazel]

You are right of course and I really do appreciate all the helpful information and the advice based on trial and error. Guess I was a little frustrated I have googled shaving soap recipes and it seems the majority of the recipes online are vastly different from what is suggested in the forums. I will figure it out eventually I guess. Thanks everyone you are all wonderful to share your experiences here.

It is frustrating and I understand because I've been there when I'm trying to tweak a recipe. I've also noticed the differences in shaving soap recipes and have wondered how well some of them actually turn out. I suppose if I really wanted to make a shaving soap for someone I'd be more concerned about creating a recipe. But I'm not worried about it since this is more of just playing around to see what I can come up with on paper. It's harder for someone who actually wants to make shaving soap. Hang in there! I'm sure you'll come up with a recipe. Also, I'll give you the recipe if I ever come up with something I think might work.

 

[marghewitt]

Thank you Hazel
I did chop it all up and cook my siezed batch with an ounce of water in the crock pot for 3 hours. I added a little more Bay Rum and put it in another plastic tube bag. It melted down just fine. I really did not think it would. So I guess I'll give a piece to my friend George to try. He is the only person I know who uses shaving soap. I have been giving him all my little ends and pieces to shave with for a while. It will be interesting to see if it works out.