Seeking feedback

[victrix]

Hello!

This recipe is one I've already made, and so far I've really liked how the bars turned out. They don't feel soapy or oily to the touch, and they haven't dried my hands out.

Information to note, my skin is fairly sensitive (I have a number of contact allergies), and in addition to that I'm very sensitive to sensory things (ie, oily textures, or skin feeling excessively dry)
(There is a variation on this recipe that I've made that adds activated charcoal and red morrocan clay, and I do think that recipe dries my hands out a little, but that's not the focus here lol)

I've been using this recipe with hot process in a crockpot, and have added the jojoba oil after the soap is around a medium trace, in the hopes that the jojoba will be left as the main part of the superfat.

The main question I have though: these bars seem to be hard for the most part, but if I put enough pressure on them I can mold them like clay. Is that particularly unusual? Or is it just what is to be expected from this recipe? After leaving them in the new shape, they seem to harden up again. I imagine it's almost what a rebatching would be like, minus having to reheat it.

The soap batches I've made before using this recipe were a few 100% olive oil batches, and a shave soap recipe I tried out once. I don't remember those bars being moldable like these ones. Though, I also don't remember trying to squish them haha

Other questions I have that are also related to bar hardness; is it due to to the superfat percentage? Would decreasing that lead to a more solid bar?
Or, is there a chance that the bars are behaving like this because of when I add the jojoba oil? I say they behave like clay, but there are notable bits that don't squish, as if some of the soap is more squishy/fluid than the rest. I can send a picture example in a few minutes.

 

[lsg]

You have a high percentage of olive oil. That will mean a longer curing time to get hard bars. Soap made from 100% olive oil may take months of curing to reach peak performance.

 

[victrix]

You have a high percentage of olive oil. That will mean a longer curing time to get hard bars. Soap made from 100% olive oil may take months of curing to reach peak performance.

Literally as I was taking pictures I remembered about olive oil taking longer to cure haha, that's very likely the reason why

The batch was made a little under a month ago/a little over 3 weeks ago, on the 16th of September.

 

[victrix]

As @lsg mentioned, this is likely just because it's mostly olive oil, but for anyone curious, here are those pictures.

 

[victrix]

Rather neat imo that it's moldable like this at this current stage though. I almost feel like it would be interesting to try and treat some of it as clay, and sculpt something, and then see how it behaves as it continues to cure.

 

[AliOop]

Would you be willing to share why you chose to make your soap with fractionated coconut oil, rather than regular coconut oil?

Because FCO is more expensive than regular CO (and makes the soap softer), I save my FCO for lotions.

 

[Kcryss]

Curious about why you would add the jojoba oil while still cooking. With HP, you can add your specialty oils after the cook as super fat which keeps the oil fully in-tact since the lye never comes in contact with that oil.

 

[victrix]

Curious about why you would add the jojoba oil while still cooking. With HP, you can add your specialty oils after the cook as super fat which keeps the oil fully in-tact since the lye never comes in contact with that oil.

I forget at what point exactly I added it in that first batch, but I know for sure I added it after medium trace. I think I was probably being a bit impatient about it ngl lol
Plus like.. I'm still not super experienced with making soap, and wasn't really sure what point to add it at. That batch was my first time adding a superfat oil at any point after having added the lye.
The second batch I made using almost the same recipe (this being the variation batch I'd mentioned with the charcoal and clay), and with that batch I added the jojoba oil once the soap had gotten to the applesauce stage, if I remember correctly

 

[AliOop]

Would you be willing to share why you chose to make your soap with fractionated coconut oil, rather than regular coconut oil?

Because FCO is more expensive than regular CO (and makes the soap softer), I save my FCO for lotions.

Still wondering about this....

 

[victrix]

Would you be willing to share why you chose to make your soap with fractionated coconut oil, rather than regular coconut oil?

Because FCO is more expensive than regular CO (and makes the soap softer), I save my FCO for lotions.

I knew it's more expensive, but not that it made soaps softer (that or I forgot about the softer bit)

So, I've been wanting to make and sell soaps for several, several years now, not necessarily crazy-profit amounts though. More just enough to where I can make more soaps, since I've enjoyed making soaps so far. However, my family and I have a lot of allergies, nearly all of which can be triggered with contact. Example; I can't use any citrus in soaps, or spices.

I've used soaps before that made it look like I'd stuck my hands in boiling water, with a clear demarcation line between where the soap touched my skin and where it didn't.

That's another part of why I want to sell soaps. My family has a very limited list of soap brands we stick to, and even those aren't guaranteed to be safe. Maybe a month or so ago we found out that one of those previously-safe brands now is causing a reaction too. Idk if that's because our skin has gotten more sensitive or if the brand's recipe has just changed..
Plus like,,, it's honestly kind of sad, how every hypoallergenic bar (that I've found at least) is the same range of neutral colors.

Now, me myself, I'm not allergic to coconut, but my dad is. He seems to do alright with coconut oil when it's used in soaps, but from what I understand, fractionating the coconut oil decreases even further the chance of a reaction. That's why I chose olive and jojoba oil as well, since olive oil is known for being a mild soap, and jojoba is supposed to be very similar to the sebum that our skin already produces.

 

[victrix]

Still wondering about this....

Yes sorry lol, I had to get food for dinner, and kept getting interrupted irl while typing

 

[AliOop]

Now, me myself, I'm not allergic to coconut, but my dad is. He seems to do alright with coconut oil when it's used in soaps, but from what I understand, fractionating the coconut oil decreases even further the chance of a reaction. That's why I chose olive and jojoba oil as well, since olive oil is known for being a mild soap, and jojoba is supposed to be very similar to the sebum that our skin already produces.

You could use palm kernel oil (not palm oil, or palm fruit oil) in lieu of coconut oil.

In soap, PKO behaves almost identically to coconut oil, but without the risks of an allergic reaction by your dad, nor the annoyance of squishy, expensive bars made with FCO.

 

[Kcryss]

I forget at what point exactly I added it in that first batch, but I know for sure I added it after medium trace. I think I was probably being a bit impatient about it ngl lol
Plus like.. I'm still not super experienced with making soap, and wasn't really sure what point to add it at. That batch was my first time adding a super fat oil at any point after having added the lye.
The second batch I made using almost the same recipe (this being the variation batch I'd mentioned with the charcoal and clay), and with that batch I added the jojoba oil once the soap had gotten to the applesauce stage, if I remember correctly

With Jojoba, it probably doesn't really matter as much as with other oils since there is a very high percentage of unsaponifiable properties. I only do HP and always wait until the soap it totally saponified before adding extras. I am not a scientist, so I could be totally wrong, but I figure anything that the lye touches can be chemically modified.

 

[victrix]

You could use palm kernel oil (not palm oil, or palm fruit oil) in lieu of coconut oil.

In soap, PKO behaves almost identically to coconut oil, but without the risks of an allergic reaction by your dad, nor the annoyance of squishy, expensive bars made with FCO.

That's true yes, but. There also remains the problem on if an oil will make my skin react too lol

So not just my dad's potential reaction, which is already confirmed to be not a risk, since he's used regular coconut oil soaps before without reacting. (we still don't know exactly why he doesn't react, but it's likely just something about the saponification process that breaks whatever allergen down enough for him to be able to use it)

For me however, my skin allergies stem from this (wiki link), a tree resin/tree sap called "balsam of peru". It's very similar to a ridiculous amount of other things (it's why I can't use citrus, or spices).

I haven't used palm kernel oil before, and don't know if I would react to it or not. Looking at a source online that I commonly check things with, it appears to be safe to use; however, I do already know from firsthand experience that I can use coconut safely. Also, I understand that it would be much cheaper to use pko, but I'm not really trying to maximize cost efficacy, or to maximize profits either.

And, as for the topic of the bars being squishy, I think I do agree with the first response in this thread: the recipe is only squishy right now because I had forgotten that olive (or in this case, mostly-oo) soaps take longer to cure haha

 

[AliOop]

Thanks for sharing, and I’m sorry to hear of the struggles. Lots of us are here due to allergies and sensitivities, so you are in good company.

Back to your soap, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that the FCO made the soap squishy, too. But time will tell… please keep us posted.

 

[TheGecko]

Given the high amount of OO, I'm not surprised that your soap is very soft after only three weeks. As noted previously, the higher the amount of Olive Oil, the longer the cure time. To give you an example...a 100% OO soap can take a good year to cure. Using FCO as opposed to CO is also going to make for a soft bar as the main fatty acid in CO, Lauric Acid, is either all or mostly removed, as well as one-chain fatty acids. FCO is good for lotions, not for soap. And Jojoba Oil isn't an oil, it's a liquid wax. Oh...and a 28.8% Lye Concentration isn't helping either. I would recommend a 33%-35% Lye Concentration to decrease the amount of water that needs to evaporate.

Commercial based soaps are made with one or two of the following: Palm Oil, Palm Kernel Oil, Tallow or Coconut Oil. It is not always easily to tell which or how much is used given how the soaps are labeled. An example of this can be found in the ingredients list for Dial: Soap [Sodium Tallowate*, Sodium Palmate*, Sodium Cocoate*, Sodium Palm Kernelate*] *contains one or more of these ingredients. They do this so they can purchase whatever fat is the most cost effective at the time. And speaking of Dial...soap is naturally anti-bacterial and there is no scientific evidence that adding 0.10% (0.001) of Benzalkonium Chloride to soap does anything, but it's a great marketing ploy for the price.

Having skin allergies/sensitivities is no fun. I have a friend/customer that I make a special recipe for as we figured out that she was allergic to Tallow, Palm Kernel Oil, and to Cocoa and Shea Butters. We did this by comparing the fats in the soaps that she was having problems with my Regular recipe and making a bunch of 3oz batches and her trying them out. And even better for her and her family, they have no negative reactions to FOs so they get to enjoy a lot of different scents.

 

[victrix]

It is not always easily to tell which or how much is used given how the soaps are labeled

Yeah, that's exactly my problem with commercial soaps. I don't know for sure if it's the oils that bother me, but I wouldn't be too surprised. What I do know does bother my skin is if there is sodium lauryl sulfate in the soap, or any fragrances added, or any item from the BoP list of things. Considering that those can be pretty common in a lot of soaps/shampoos/etc, fragrances especially so, for all I know some of those oils also cause a reaction, it's just "hidden" by me also having reacted to the things I already know I react to. Idk if that makes sense but hopefully it does lol

If nothing else, me making my own soaps will give me a chance to test out different oils, and truly find out what I actually can and can't use. Though, I think that if I do that it will be later down the road once I've got funds to spare for it lol
Not as like, "I'm going to buy large amount of this thing I might not be able to use!" but just, maybe enough for a batch or two, that way if I can't use it myself it won't be too much . And like, researching things first...

Oh...and a 28.8% Lye Concentration isn't helping either. I would recommend a 33%-35% Lye Concentration to decrease the amount of water that needs to evaporate.

Thanks for the suggestion! That answers one of the questions I'd had lol
Though, is that a good concentration percentage for use with hot process?

 

[TheGecko]

If nothing else, me making my own soaps will give me a chance to test out different oils, and truly find out what I actually can and can't use. Though, I think that if I do that it will be later down the road once I've got funds to spare for it lol
Not as like, "I'm going to buy large amount of this thing I might not be able to use!" but just, maybe enough for a batch or two, that way if I can't use it myself it won't be too much .

I started with a kit from BrambleBerry. Gazillions of recipes out there and I wasn't sure if it was something I would like, so it was the most logical course of action...everything I needed to make a batch of soap, a mold, a tried and true recipe. If I didn't like it...I didn't have a lot of ingredients going to waste and could donate the mold.

Of course I fell in love with soap making, but I took it slow and easy. I set a budget, bought base ingredients, then started experimenting by buying the smallest amount of what I wanted to try. I bought a pound this butter and that oil; I bought Sample colorants, I bought 'trial/1oz' bottles of FOs/EOs. And I bought a couple of 4" Square Silicone Molds to make soap without having a soapocalypse.

Though, is that a good concentration percentage for use with hot process?

I do CP, but I know that you need higher amounts of water with HP. How much though, I would recommend starting a thread about that questions.

 

[KiwiMoose]

If your dad doesn't react to some soap with CO in them, had you thought about making a soap that just has LOW CO and see how he goes? Just 10%?

You could try Zany's No Slime Castile and see how that goes? I make the version wiht 10% CO and 5% castor and it's great! Sets up pretty quick too.

 

[victrix]

If your dad doesn't react to some soap with CO in them, had you thought about making a soap that just has LOW CO and see how he goes? Just 10%?

I could yes, if my intention was to make a soap specifically for my dad.
The goal however is to try and keep the recipe as hypoallergenic as possible, with the intent to make and sell soaps as a business.

Since I know my mom and sister and I have had trouble finding soaps we can use (since all three of us can't use sls, or the BoP list that I mentioned in post #14), I wanted to make a business so that it's easier for others with the same skin problems to find safe soaps, without them having to make the soaps themselves.

My dad comparatively doesn't have trouble finding soaps. His only allergies are spinach and coconut, but again, he's told me that coconut oil in soap has never bothered him (or at least not that he's noticed).

Now, theoretically, if I did use regular coconut oil and just used less overall, then yes it might still not make someone else's skin react, but I can't guarantee that.


Tldr, the focus for my recipe isn't my dad, sorry if I made it seem that way

You could try Zany's No Slime Castile and see how that goes?

That's twice now I've had that recipe recommended to me haha

I'll likely try it out at some point and make a batch for myself/my family, but I don't want to make and sell soaps using someone else's exact recipe. That feels rather.. Ah, "unfair" isn't quite the right word lol