Ricing and Separating

[Tamijean]

I have a recipe that I have used 5 or 6 times with no trouble but this time it both riced and separated. I changed a few things,

since I was wanting to do a swirl I used full water, I usually discount 15% to 18% because I live in a really humid caribbean climate and the soap wouldn't cure. I got an dehumidified cure room so I tried full water. Would that have affected it?

I also didn't stick blend the FO in, I mixed it in with a spatula.

I switched Mica suppliers with 1 of my colors. I can't see how that would have affected it because it was a creamy flowing soap batter at the beginning of the pour and 2/3rds through it started separating and ricing in all the colors. but it was a difference so I mention it.

It hasn't hardened yet, but does anyone know if this loaf can be recovered? or is it just trash? I haven't tried rebatching successfully yet. Any Ideas would be appreciated.

Oh and I use local oils so my recipe is all coconut oil and cocoa butter with an 18% superfat and I was using crafters choice mango sorbet.

 

[amd]

I took a peak at the customer reviews for the FO, the first recent review mentions ricing. Two or three more recent reviews state no problems, as do older reviews. With some recent FO reformulations due to a citral shortage, the newest review could be a most recent formulation.

When you say that you haven't tried rebatching successfully yet... does that mean you haven't tried rebatching at all? Or do you mean you have tried but didn't have good results? What were your results for those tries? We can help trouble shoot rebatching technique, or tell you if your results are normal for rebatch.

 

[Tamijean]

Thank you, I couldn't figure out why it was behaving so differently.
The first part of the pour went well and the soap that stuck to the divider I pulled out of the loaf was fine, but the loaf has a thin layer of what looks like water on top. I am going to have to figure out how to test ph on this loaf, I am trying to determine if it is safe to use.

I have only tried to rebatch once. I watched a soap queen video and tried to save a batch of chocolate soap that had seized, I ended up with a brick so thick I couldn't get all the air pockets out of it and just down right ugly. It now gets used as a door stop in the soaping room. I am trying to determine if this soap is such a loss that I might as well try rebatching again.

 

[amd]

In my opinion (and you may find several others on this forum who agree), testing the pH won't get you very far. pH doesn't detect a lye heavy soap, or the presence of lye, only tells you the pH of the soap. It is also difficult to do accurately. I would slap on a pair of gloves and take a finger swipe of the liquid on top. Smell it, does it smell like FO? The FO may have separated and you could try leaving it alone for a few days to see if the soap reabsorbs it. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. The second thing I would do is zap test it. See this thread for how to zap test.

I have one FO that separates out every time I use it (you would think at some point I would learn... but I'm stubborn!). The last time I rebatched it I dumped everything into a crockpot, I didn't even shred it, I just cut it into 2-3 pieces and turned the crock on high. Please note: the batch that I did was very small, only 16oz of oil. I let it cook for about 30 minutes until it had the clear "vaseline" look and then put it in the mold. When you rebatch you can add more water to give the soap more "fluidity" - not to be confused with being a fluid pour like CP, just a loose paste consistency that stirs easily. Some people add liquid upfront when they rebatch, I prefer to add it at the end 1 TBSP at a time, stirring in between, until the soap gets to a consistency that I can get into a mold and tap down easily. I still let my rebatch cure so the extra water I add will evaporate out. Rebatch is going to look ugly, I've only seen a few rebatches that were actually an improvement on the original soap.

 

[Tamijean]

Thanks for the help, it was FO that was separating out. I will try it again, this time I will stick blend the FO in.

 

[amd]

@Tamijean You could also add your FO to your oils before adding your lye, that way you know they are blended in well. The only time I have added FO's at trace is when I was first learning (because that's what all the blogs and books told me to do) and if I want to fragrance separate parts. My cherry almond FO discolors to brown due to vanillan, so I bring my batter to emulsion, separate a bit to color pink, and then add the FO to the remainder and stick blend to trace. If you want to add FO after mixing lye and you're not an experienced soapmaker, emulsion can be hard to identify, so I would stick with a light trace until you figure things out!

 

[Tamijean]

Thanks for the help! any tips on finding emulsion? I use local coconut and cocoa butter only and work at room temp which is between 90 and 95 degrees so they are both liquid. (any warmer than that and we call it a beach day) I have noticed that the batter will turn a creamy color but there is still a small spot that is shiny in the middle of the blend that goes away with light trace.

 

[amd]

This thread may be of some use to you.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/

I'm not sure the YouTube video is working correctly (I can't check because I'm at work), if it isn't then send a conversation to @newbie or @Angie who may be able to fix the video link. It's an older thread from before the forum converted to (...something technical that I really don't understand... but the forum changed and some of the older photos, links, etc no longer work).

 

[Prysm]

This thread may be of some use to you.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/

I'm not sure the YouTube video is working correctly (I can't check because I'm at work), if it isn't then send a conversation to @newbie or @Angie who may be able to fix the video link. It's an older thread from before the forum converted to (...something technical that I really don't understand... but the forum changed and some of the older photos, links, etc no longer work).

]

I just did an edit and the video now shows. I’ll see if I can get it done for all by a script from developer.

 

[amd]

Thanks @Angie you're amazing!

 

[SoaperForLife]

For fo's that rice it helps to add a little bit of the melted oils to the fragrance oil, let it sit a minute or two and then add in to your soap solution. I wouldn't have rebatched yet.... sometimes that slick of oil on top will disappear after a few days.