Rice water soaping enquiry

[hoegarden]

Hi fellow soapers,
Need a little help here... I did a batch of soap using rice water to dissolve the lye...

While waiting for the temperature to drop, the lye mixture kind of gel up... Is that normal?

I am now thinking if the soap should be done the way like milk soap where you do at super low temperature. What do you people think?

 

[Arimara]

I have never used rice water to soap with. I can't say I'm surprised that happened though. Did you happen to take the temp when the lye gelled up?

 

[Dawni]

I think it was @MGM who tried rice water/milk and hers also thickened up as well..

@runnerchicki had also posted a rice water/milk soap somewhere..

There was another recent post but I can't remember.. I'm still looking.

Are we talking about water that had rice soaking in it, or cooked rice that was blitzed and strained? I've used both, but in, HP. The water did not turn thick when lye was added, but the puree I add to my oils so I can't help you there.

 

[Fiut]

I want to try rice "milk" too. On Youtube found a video of making rice milk plain soap, and the lye water was quite thick. So probably it happens. And is normal. There was a Q to the author about it and she explained "Its ideal to use for example two tablespoon of steamed or cooked rice to 18oz of water to blend. The trick is to use more water and less rice because it will thicken when lye is added."

 

[hoegarden]

Hi fellows,
I soak water in rice and blend up the whole liquid... i filtered out the rice after and and in as scrub after trace...

So the rice water is filtered out from the blended mixture

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oat milk thickens when the lye is added, so it could be similar due to the starch content?

 

[runnerchicki]

I have used rice water/milk a few times and my experiences has varied depending on how much rice is in the liquid. For example, I have made the rice milk and really blended it to a super smooth consistency (I have a vitamix and it does a great job liquifying everything). I strained the blend through cheesecloth and that liquid turns to a jelly-like consistency if mixed with lye. The soap turns out fine, but I worried about having to SB more to get everything incorporated. I also have blended the rice using my stick blender. The particles are larger than when I use the vitamix and they will settle to the bottom of the container if left to sit for a day or so (in the fridge). Using the water portion without all the solids blended in resulted in a less gooey lye solution, but it still gets thicker than just using plain water.

Ultimately, what I like best is to liquify the rice using my vitamix, and then I strain through a nut milk bag. I get a thin, milky liquid. I use this for HALF my water and I do not mix it with the lye. I use a 50:50 lye solution and add the rice milk straight into the oils - give it a blast with the SB - then add the lye and proceed as normal.

The first bars I made that had the most solids in them are very hard. Almost too hard for my taste. It takes a bit of work to get the lather going, but then they have a dreamy slick lather. The bars with just the rice water are lovely, but not much different from the bars where I use the strained milky liquid for half the water. For my notes I refer to them as "pureed rice, rice water, and rice milk." My favorite is rice milk for half the water.

Sorry this was so long, but I have been playing a bit with rice milk because it is currently my favorite alternate liquid. It's worth experimenting to see whether you prefer using rice, rice water, or rice milk and whether or not you have better results using it as a straight substitution for all the water in the recipe vs. half.

 

[Carly B]

Sorry this was so long, but I have been playing a bit with rice milk because it is currently my favorite alternate liquid. It's worth experimenting to see whether you prefer using rice, rice water, or rice milk and whether or not you have better results using it as a straight substitution for all the water in the recipe vs. half.

Since it's a favorite of yours can you tell me what it does that makes you like it so much? How does it improve the soap? I'm new to CP (but have done rebatch for years) and I often used oat water but I've never thought of using rice water.

 

[Arimara]

Hi fellows,
I soak water in rice and blend up the whole liquid... i filtered out the rice after and and in as scrub after trace...

So the rice water is filtered out from the blended mixture

Wouldn't that make that rice milk? I thought you either soaked the rice in water or cooked rice in additional water and used that cooked rice water to soap with.

 

[runnerchicki]

Since it's a favorite of yours can you tell me what it does that makes you like it so much? How does it improve the soap? I'm new to CP (but have done rebatch for years) and I often used oat water but I've never thought of using rice water.

I like the texture of the lather. It feels very silky, creamy, and slick (but not slimy) all at the same time. I also feel that it makes a firmer bar (although I have not made any actual measurements to support this). I am also experimenting with oat milk, but the bars are still curing so I can't give you a comparison of the rice vs. oat just yet in the bar properties. I CAN tell you that straining oat milk was such a nuisance for me compared to straining rice milk that it is going to have to be a fantastically superior result for me to do it again lol.

Edited to add: I should point out that I have only been soaping for a year and a half, and so my knowledge is not deep and wide. These are just my experiences thus far.

 

[hoegarden]

Wouldn't that make that rice milk? I thought you either soaked the rice in water or cooked rice in additional water and used that cooked rice water to soap with.

Hi, It was my first batch of soap using rice water or rice milk as you mentioned... For that, I am still confused over how would you call water and how will it call milk...

 

[Dawni]

I like the texture of the lather. It feels very silky, creamy, and slick (but not slimy) all at the same time. I also feel that it makes a firmer bar (although I have not made any actual measurements to support this).

These are the exact reasons I like mine as well.

I've tried to do a side by side of the same recipe that does not have any hard oil at all (other than coconut that is).. One control with plain water, one with rice puree, one with rice water (rice soaked in it but not blended in). I'm not home so haven't had the chance to post my findings on lather, longevity and hardness yet..

I have said several times though, that my rice soap is the hardest bar I have, the one that lasts longer than most, and also the most fluid (I HP mine, haven't tried to CP the same recipe). There's something in that starch......

 

[hoegarden]

I have used rice water/milk a few times and my experiences has varied depending on how much rice is in the liquid. For example, I have made the rice milk and really blended it to a super smooth consistency (I have a vitamix and it does a great job liquifying everything). I strained the blend through cheesecloth and that liquid turns to a jelly-like consistency if mixed with lye. The soap turns out fine, but I worried about having to SB more to get everything incorporated. I also have blended the rice using my stick blender. The particles are larger than when I use the vitamix and they will settle to the bottom of the container if left to sit for a day or so (in the fridge). Using the water portion without all the solids blended in resulted in a less gooey lye solution, but it still gets thicker than just using plain water.

Ultimately, what I like best is to liquify the rice using my vitamix, and then I strain through a nut milk bag. I get a thin, milky liquid. I use this for HALF my water and I do not mix it with the lye. I use a 50:50 lye solution and add the rice milk straight into the oils - give it a blast with the SB - then add the lye and proceed as normal.

The first bars I made that had the most solids in them are very hard. Almost too hard for my taste. It takes a bit of work to get the lather going, but then they have a dreamy slick lather. The bars with just the rice water are lovely, but not much different from the bars where I use the strained milky liquid for half the water. For my notes I refer to them as "pureed rice, rice water, and rice milk." My favorite is rice milk for half the water.

Sorry this was so long, but I have been playing a bit with rice milk because it is currently my favorite alternate liquid. It's worth experimenting to see whether you prefer using rice, rice water, or rice milk and whether or not you have better results using it as a straight substitution for all the water in the recipe vs. half.

Hi, Did you consider the temperature for this?

Oat milk thickens when the lye is added, so it could be similar due to the starch content?

It could be... But I don’t know... That is why I am thinking if a lower temperature handling method to be used so that the starch content will not be affected by high temperature when mix with lye...

 

[runnerchicki]

These are the exact reasons I like mine as well.

I've tried to do a side by side of the same recipe that does not have any hard oil at all (other than coconut that is).. One control with plain water, one with rice puree, one with rice water (rice soaked in it but not blended in). I'm not home so haven't had the chance to post my findings on lather, longevity and hardness yet..

I have said several times though, that my rice soap is the hardest bar I have, the one that lasts longer than most, and also the most fluid (I HP mine, haven't tried to CP the same recipe). There's something in that starch......

I can't wait to hear your thoughts when you are able to do the side by side comparison

Hi, Did you consider the temperature for this?

I always soap at room temp, which for me is currently is 77 degrees (I live in AZ and that is what my thermostat is set for in the summer). When I mixed the rice water with the lye for 100% of the water, I froze it in cubes and added the lye slowly just like with milk. It got thick. I think this is pretty normal. If you are concerned that there is anything wrong with your soap because your lye solution got thick - I wouldn't worry. I think it's the nature of the beast. I just personally don't like blending it in like that so I use it for only 1/2 the water of my recipe and blend it in separately from the 50:50 lye solution.

I think there will be variability in results when you are using homemade rice water/milk. The amount of starch in the liquid is going to vary depending on your method of making it, and possibly even the kind of rice you use. I imagine short grained rice could have more sticky starch than long grain although I have not compared these in soap. I recommend experimenting with your process and keeping good notes until you find what works best for you.

 

[KiwiMoose]

It could be... But I don’t know... That is why I am thinking if a lower temperature handling method to be used so that the starch content will not be affected by high temperature when mix with lye...

I use frozen oat milk and it goes gluggy.

 

[MGM]

I use frozen oat milk and it goes gluggy.

This is raw oat milk, though, right? I still think that cooked rice, blitzed in mixer with water, should not go gluggy because the starch has already been cooked once. And yet, gluggy she goes.
I made some soap the other night, with half frozen rice milk (I'm calling it milk now because pulverized cooked rice with water and strained it) and half water for the first time, and it was still just as gluggy.
How long has it been since I made that original batch, @Dawni , whaddya think? Safe to try a bar? Maybe I'll go do that now....seems easier than cleaning up the kitchen to actually make some soap....

 

[Dawni]

This is raw oat milk, though, right? I still think that cooked rice, blitzed in mixer with water, should not go gluggy because the starch has already been cooked once. And yet, gluggy she goes.
I made some soap the other night, with half frozen rice milk (I'm calling it milk now because pulverized cooked rice with water and strained it) and half water for the first time, and it was still just as gluggy.
How long has it been since I made that original batch, @Dawni , whaddya think? Safe to try a bar? Maybe I'll go do that now....seems easier than cleaning up the kitchen to actually make some soap....

Try one? It's been a month give n take from what I recall. I usually keep all my soap for 2mos before using but unless yours had a lot of butters, can't recall now, you should be able to see for yourself what me and @runnerchicki have been talking about hehehe

I call mine rice puree to not confuse myself lol. Same as you, I had cooked rice n added water, but in my case I cooked the rice some more, and that's what I blitzed with my SB. It was like thick glue. Dumped it in my oils though, not as lye water. For that I used strained liquid from soaking raw rice. No gluggy there.

I think runnerchicki is right.... The kind of rice and how you cook it should matter. The rice we usually cook is short grain and a lil chubby lol and it gets cooked with the water until it's gone.... I've wanted to try with basmati, the long grain rice used in biryani, coz that boils in a lot of water that's drained out. I have a feeling that will be less starchy after it's blitzed..

 

[hoegarden]

I can't wait to hear your thoughts when you are able to do the side by side comparison

I always soap at room temp, which for me is currently is 77 degrees (I live in AZ and that is what my thermostat is set for in the summer). When I mixed the rice water with the lye for 100% of the water, I froze it in cubes and added the lye slowly just like with milk. It got thick. I think this is pretty normal. If you are concerned that there is anything wrong with your soap because your lye solution got thick - I wouldn't worry. I think it's the nature of the beast. I just personally don't like blending it in like that so I use it for only 1/2 the water of my recipe and blend it in separately from the 50:50 lye solution.

I think there will be variability in results when you are using homemade rice water/milk. The amount of starch in the liquid is going to vary depending on your method of making it, and possibly even the kind of rice you use. I imagine short grained rice could have more sticky starch than long grain although I have not compared these in soap. I recommend experimenting with your process and keeping good notes until you find what works best for you.

Hiyo, I think that one of my major concern is that I did ice cube the rice water. So the lye temperature went up to 170degree before going back to room temperature... so not sure if the soap quality will be compromise as the high temperature might have altered the properties of the rice water...

I will wait for my batch to cure and see how the soap turn out... then I will experiment again...

 

[penelopejane]

I like the texture of the lather. It feels very silky, creamy, and slick (but not slimy) all at the same time. I also feel that it makes a firmer bar (although I have not made any actual measurements to support this). I am also experimenting with oat milk, but the bars are still curing so I can't give you a comparison of the rice vs. oat just yet in the bar properties. I CAN tell you that straining oat milk was such a nuisance for me compared to straining rice milk that it is going to have to be a fantastically superior result for me to do it again lol.

Edited to add: I should point out that I have only been soaping for a year and a half, and so my knowledge is not deep and wide. These are just my experiences thus far.

Don’t know how you make your oat milk but I rinse 1 cup oats in water for a minute or so. Strain it and add it to 3 cups of water. Let it sit for 30 mins or longer. Then I blitz it in a food processor and strain it through muslin. I just let it do it’s thing but squeeze it a bit at the very end. That makes one recipe for me. If there’s too much liquid for a recipe I pour off the top (the milk seems to settle to the bottom) and use all the thick milk part.

 

[Arimara]

Don’t know how you make your oat milk but I rinse 1 cup oats in water for a minute or so. Strain it and add it to 3 cups of water. Let it sit for 30 mins or longer. Then I blitz it in a food processor and strain it through muslin. I just let it do it’s thing but squeeze it a bit at the very end. That makes one recipe for me. If there’s too much liquid for a recipe I pour off the top (the milk seems to settle to the bottom) and use all the thick milk part.

@hoegarden This same process is used to make rice milk, which is pretty much what you did. You get more of the rice as opposed to making rice water, which really doesn't have all of the rice's properties, if you will (though a good chunk of use do use rice water for our hair but that's another thread).

If memory serves me right, if you were to use rice powder at the least, you would get soap with a silky lather as well and gentle exfoliation to boot. Rice milk certainly sounds promising enough.