Recipe for a *really* hard bar?

[madison]

I use both GV shortenings. The palm and tallow one is directly in Soapcalc. This is my primary and makes an excellent balanced bar with lard, coconut and olive/safflower.

For the vegetable one, I use 'Crisco, New' for vegan soaps. While it may not be a perfect match, I've done it half a dozen times without any hint of lye-heavy soap. Typically about 40% GV veg, 20% coconut, 25% olive/safflower, 5% castor, 10% shea. The only downside to the GV veg is that it's pretty quick to trace, even with the recipe above having 25% oleic oil.

Thank you BG. How much % palm: tallow in GV shortening? I do have quick trace problem with my recipes that I use higher hard oils than my regular amounts. I started using 30% lye solution to deal with that, it helps a little. May I ask how much your lye concentration is? (Only if you like to share).

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I don't know the percentage of palm vs tallow in the GV shortening. It might not even be guaranteed the same between batches; who knows? But since they have the same saponification number, it doesn't matter as far as safety is concerned.

I make almost everything at 33% lye solution.

 

[maxine289]

I am not Saranac, but in case she doesn't have a chance to answer right away, there are a few posts she has made regarding the use of soy wax in soaps and has generously shared information. I will link one of those posts, which should address the question until she comes along to expand.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240
In fact, I suggest reading that entire thread, as there is a lot of information in it about using soywax in soap.

Also in another thread, she posted this about soywax soap: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...alling-all-soy-wax-soapers.68900/#post-683845

In both those threads she mentions the type of soy wax she uses. Some soy wax for candles has additives that I think would skew your SAP values, if not change the performance of your soap, so I have not used anything except the 415 soy wax myself, which was of course at Saranac's suggestion.

Thanks very much. I'll take a look at the threads.

 

[Vaibhav Jain]

40% Palm Oil, 30% tallow, 10% Coconut oil, 5% castor oil and 15% whatever soft oil you like will give a hard long lasting bar of soap with bubbly cream lather. You could cut the palm and add in some coco butter, but it is just without the butter. Hard bars do not represent long lasting soap, it is how soluble the soap formula is. Coconut Oil which creates a very hard soap is very soluble and disappears quickly, but is the reason it is used as a salt water soap for Sailors.

what if I use 70% palm oil, 15% Rice bran oil, 10% coconut oil and 5% castor oil ?

 

[cmzaha]

what if I use 70% palm oil, 15% Rice bran oil, 10% coconut oil and 5% castor oil ?

70% palm is going to make a very quick tracing batter and a waxy bar. 100% palm does not lather so with 70% and 10% Coconut the bar may not lather well. I would up the RBO to 20%-25% with 15% CO.

 

[Vaibhav Jain]

70% palm is going to make a very quick tracing batter and a waxy bar. 100% palm does not lather so with 70% and 10% Coconut the bar may not lather well. I would up the RBO to 20%-25% with 15% CO.

ok... i've prepared this recipe . please see and tell whether it is okay or need any correction.

 

[steffamarie]

20% castor is a lot and might make the bar tacky. I wouldn't go above 10.

 

[Vaibhav Jain]

20% castor is a lot and might make the bar tacky. I wouldn't go above 10.

than whats the option for such a great lather.
how's if I use 2.5% sodium chloride in water before adding lye in this recipe .... will the bar still be tacky.

 

[dibbles]

I noticed that you have KOH selected for your lye. If you are making bar soap, you want to use NaOH. I agree with steffamarie to lower your castor to 10% or less. I use 5%. Castor will stabilize lather, but it doesn't create it. You get lather from oils like coconut, palm kernel (different than palm oil) and babassu. With 30% coconut oil, you should have nice bubbles. You can boost bubbles by dissolving sugar in your batch water before adding the lye. I use 1-2 tsp per pound of oils.

 

[Vaibhav Jain]

I noticed that you have KOH selected for your lye. If you are making bar soap, you want to use NaOH. I agree with steffamarie to lower your castor to 10% or less. I use 5%. Castor will stabilize lather, but it doesn't create it. You get lather from oils like coconut, palm kernel (different than palm oil) and babassu. With 30% coconut oil, you should have nice bubbles. You can boost bubbles by dissolving sugar in your batch water before adding the lye. I use 1-2 tsp per pound of oils.

oh sorry... i posted wrong screenshot, though the oil's ratio is correct. thanks for input.

 

[cmzaha]

I would use less Salt since it deters lather. I use 1.1% Sorbitol in my bars for lather but sugar also works. Since I do not usually go much over 17% CO I need the boost. Castor Oil does not add bubbles, it supports lather and works just fine in the 5% range as Dibbles mentioned above. Your CO percentage would be too much and will make a more soluble bar. This means it will not last as long.

 

[dibbles]

Going off the oils you used in your example, this might be something to try - 22% coconut oil, 30% palm oil, 5% castor oil, 31% olive oil, 12% rice bran oil. Add sugar at 1 - 2 tsp PPO or if you have access to aloe juice replace your water with that to boost the bubbles.

 

[Vaibhav Jain]

Going off the oils you used in your example, this might be something to try - 22% coconut oil, 30% palm oil, 5% castor oil, 31% olive oil, 12% rice bran oil. Add sugar at 1 - 2 tsp PPO or if you have access to aloe juice replace your water with that to boost the bubbles.

i used once aloe juice in place of water but as I added lye to it it turned yellow. I also kept the aloe juice in freezer and then used (though it was still in liquid form and not turned into ice), but that also didn't work. so please guide how to use it. If u can upload a video here, it will be very helpful.

 

[dibbles]

i used once aloe juice in place of water but as I added lye to it it turned yellow. I also kept the aloe juice in freezer and then used (though it was still in liquid form and not turned into ice), but that also didn't work. so please guide how to use it. If u can upload a video here, it will be very helpful.

I haven't used aloe since I started using sugar, but I don't remember having any discoloration problems. If it did turn yellow when the lye was added, it didn't seem to make a difference in the finished soap. Here are a couple of videos, and I'm sure your own search on YouTube will turn up more.



In Ophelia's Soapery, she added TD to the lye solution. In the other it doesn't appear that she had a problem with discoloration. I never froze my aloe juice. I have found that the color that some additives turn when the lye is introduced usually don't stay that color. Honey is a great example of this - it turns bright orange. It can be surprising when it happens though.