Recipe for a *really* hard bar?

[pecanpie]

Whatever recipe you like, bump the sodium lactate to 3% and it will be quite hard. If you hot process the soap you'll have pretty a stout bar by morning.

Since the bars will be hard as f*** , a silicone mold will help as will some mold release (mineral oil).

As for being "natural' sodium lactate is just the sodium salt of lactic acid, the stuff we eat in yogurt and sourdough all the time.

 

[Nanditasr]

Keep in mind, we all differ. DeeAnna likes about 30%. I just blasted together a soap with 42% palmitic and stearic. You could dent the floor with this stuff.

Oh, certainly! I too find that my favourite soaps have >40% palmitic and stearic -- that's because I use palmolein (inexpensive, and I like the feel) and neem oil.

 

[DeeAnna]

Hermmmm.... It bothers me to be misquoted.

I didn't say "about 30%." I said low to mid 30% range. To me, this means anywhere from 31% up to 37%.

Just to set the record straight.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Sorry, so sorry. Yeah, low to mid 30% range. Straightened record and all that. I was wrong, you are right.

 

[DeeAnna]

My thanks, Morpheus!

 

[maxine289]

That sounds good, actually! Keep the palm high for some hardness, keep the coconut and/or pko high for more hardness (but also high lather and heavy cleansing).

Honestly, even pure olive cures rock hamrd (as in, could pound nails with it) in six to twelve months.

And you can use either coconut or PKO. Effectively, they both do the same thing. But if you want to use both, there's no reason not to.

For really, really hard bars, use soy wax as a component. I count it as fully hydrogenated soybean oil, but have lately learned that's not necessarily true. Still, it's rock hard.

I don't recommend use much over 20% or you get a rock hard, waxy bar (which you'd like) with extremely spare lather (which you probably wouldn't like).

I just made one of these for my niece, who's vegetarian and won't use anything with animal fats. That recipe was:

50% Olive Oil
25% Coconut Oil
20% Soy Wax
5% Castor Oil

That was a fairly hard bar, but still conditioning from the olive.

You can substitute palm, lard, or tallow for the olive for an even harder bar.

Are you completely averse to using animal fats? If not, I have a recipe for you!

Are you completely averse to using animal fats? If not, I have a recipe for you!

Are you completely averse to using animal fats? If not, I have a recipe for you!

 

[dixiedragon]

I have found that 5% beeswax makes a lovely hard bar. But 10% is too much and makes a soft bar. I have no idea why that is!

Also, clove EO makes a very hard bar.

 

[madison]

I have found that 5% beeswax makes a lovely hard bar. But 10% is too much and makes a soft bar. I have no idea why that is!

Also, clove EO makes a very hard bar.

May I ask, do you make swirls with 5% beeswax, if yes, how do you mange that? have you noticed any correlation between using beeswax and having soda ash, if you had any? I started recently experimenting with beeswax still at 1% though.

 

[maxine289]

Are you completely averse to using animal fats? If not, I have a recipe for you!

Hi, I'm curious to know what your suggested recipe is. I use lard all the time and find it makes an nice hard bar. I usually use 50% lard, 25% OO, 15% CO, 5% shea butter, 5% castor oil.
(sorry for the earlier empty replies. was using a cell phone at the time and couldn't figure out how to navigate)

Morpheus' recipe looks good. In fact, it's exactly what my first SW recipe looked like. I now use soy wax in all of my bars but at closer to 40%. It makes great soap that is rock hard in 6-8 weeks.

Are you using the soy wax that you would use to make candles???

 

[earlene]

Are you using the soy wax that you would use to make candles???

I am not Saranac, but in case she doesn't have a chance to answer right away, there are a few posts she has made regarding the use of soy wax in soaps and has generously shared information. I will link one of those posts, which should address the question until she comes along to expand.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240
In fact, I suggest reading that entire thread, as there is a lot of information in it about using soywax in soap.

Also in another thread, she posted this about soywax soap: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...alling-all-soy-wax-soapers.68900/#post-683845

In both those threads she mentions the type of soy wax she uses. Some soy wax for candles has additives that I think would skew your SAP values, if not change the performance of your soap, so I have not used anything except the 415 soy wax myself, which was of course at Saranac's suggestion.

 

[Susie]

Hi, I'm curious to know what your suggested recipe is. I use lard all the time and find it makes an nice hard bar. I usually use 50% lard, 25% OO, 15% CO, 5% shea butter, 5% castor oil.
(sorry for the earlier empty replies. was using a cell phone at the time and couldn't figure out how to navigate)

My favorite recipe (with variations) is this:

Lard 40-65%
GV Shortening (with palm and tallow), optional 25 %
Olive Oil 15%
Coconut Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

I normally do use the GV shortening, as I like the bubbles, and it makes the bars harder. But it is not necessary. I like my lardy bars just fine.

 

[amd]

Glad I'm not the only one who likes the GV shortening! While I don't use it in my store soaps, I do use it in personal use soaps for the bathroom sinks. I have been very impressed with its longevity - the last batch I made was 2 years ago and those haven't shown any signs of DOS. (Or maybe that was my mistake thinking the shortening would cause it.)

 

[madison]

I always avoided GV shortening because I thought it would cause DOS, I didn't know it doesn't. Where do you buy it and how do you use it in the calc.?

 

[penelopejane]

It doesn’t get DOS because it contains BHA.

 

[amd]

GV is Great Value brand at Walmart. They have two - one is called 'Shortening' and the other is called 'Vegetable Shortening'. I've used both with the same results. In soapcalc GV Shortening is listed in the oils as

. The vegetable version is not in the calc, so I use Crisco New. I'm not sure if that's the correct thing to do, but so far it hasn't bit me in the keister.

 

[Susie]

Why would you not use GV Shortening in your bars to sell? Just list the ingredients tallow and palm oil, and keep on making it! I would! Matter of fact, when I was planning to sell, I was developing recipes with more hardness than I usually care about at home when I found out how much I love using it.

 

[madison]

Why would you not use GV Shortening in your bars to sell? Just list the ingredients tallow and palm oil, and keep on making it! I would! Matter of fact, when I was planning to sell, I was developing recipes with more hardness than I usually care about at home when I found out how much I love using it.

Do you choose Crisco, new w/ palm option in soapee calc.?

 

[Susie]

Do you choose Crisco, new w/ palm option in soapee calc.?

I use the kind that has the palm and tallow. So I use the Walmart GV Shortening option. It is way down in the bottom 1/4 of the list.

 

[madison]

I use the kind that has the palm and tallow. So I use the Walmart GV Shortening option. It is way down in the bottom 1/4 of the list.

Look like I don't need to adjust anything, it's like choosing any other oil. Thank you Susie.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I use both GV shortenings. The palm and tallow one is directly in Soapcalc. This is my primary and makes an excellent balanced bar with lard, coconut and olive/safflower.

For the vegetable one, I use 'Crisco, New' for vegan soaps. While it may not be a perfect match, I've done it half a dozen times without any hint of lye-heavy soap. Typically about 40% GV veg, 20% coconut, 25% olive/safflower, 5% castor, 10% shea. The only downside to the GV veg is that it's pretty quick to trace, even with the recipe above having 25% oleic oil.