Rebatching Drying Soap

[DeeAnna]

"...I read somewhere HP is ready in a day to week...."

I know, I know. A lot of people have this idea, but it really isn't accurate. Sorry to burst your bubble.

CP and HP are two different ways to saponify the soap, but they aren't two different ways to cure the soap. You can use CP soap or HP soap right after saponification is over -- a few hours for HP, a day or two for CP -- but any soap at this age is going to wear away quicker in the shower, won't lather as abundantly and easily, and may not feel quite as mild to the skin compared with soap that is several weeks older.

Curing relates to the time needed to finish any last tiny bits of saponification, evaporate excess moisture, and form a crystalline structure within the soap. Arguably hot process soap, since it usually has more liquid in it, may take even longer to cure than cold process. But suffice to say, neither method offers any big shortcut, if you want your soap to perform at its best when you give it to someone or sell it.

When I've measured the rate of moisture evaporation, it takes at least 4 weeks for the rate of water loss to really slow down for a typical bath soap. About that time, the bar has also become reasonably hard and the lather is decent, although maybe not quite at its prime. So 4 weeks is the shortest time I will cure a typical bath soap before I let it go out the door. Many people advocate curing 6-8 weeks or longer before use. Long cure times can be especially helpful for some types of soaps such as 100% olive oil soap or salt soaps.

 

[cmzaha]

Nope in fact hp usually takes longer because more water is used to hp. Any I have to hp get a 3 month min cure

 

[Dean]

"...I read somewhere HP is ready in a day to week...."

I know, I know. A lot of people have this idea, but it really isn't accurate. Sorry to burst your bubble.

CP and HP are two different ways to saponify the soap, but they aren't two different ways to cure the soap. You can use CP soap or HP soap right after saponification is over -- a few hours for HP, a day or two for CP -- but any soap at this age is going to wear away quicker in the shower, won't lather as abundantly and easily, and may not feel quite as mild to the skin compared with soap that is several weeks older.

Curing relates to the time needed to finish any last tiny bits of saponification, evaporate excess moisture, and form a crystalline structure within the soap. Arguably hot process soap, since it usually has more liquid in it, may take even longer to cure than cold process. But suffice to say, neither method offers any big shortcut, if you want your soap to perform at its best when you give it to someone or sell it.

When I've measured the rate of moisture evaporation, it takes at least 4 weeks for the rate of water loss to really slow down for a typical bath soap. About that time, the bar has also become reasonably hard and the lather is decent, although maybe not quite at its prime. So 4 weeks is the shortest time I will cure a typical bath soap before I let it go out the door. Many people advocate curing 6-8 weeks or longer before use. Long cure times can be especially helpful for some types of soaps such as 100% olive oil soap or salt soaps.

OMG I just made ugly mash potato soap for no reason!

Ur logic makes tho. Seems like there are a lot of myths around soaping. Is there any benefit of HP? How do industrial soap co get around curing?


Soaping nirvana is so elusive.

Thx again DeeAnna.

 

[DeeAnna]

Commercial soap is saponified, flash dried, mixed, and finally extruded or stamped into bars. It's not cured in the sense that we cure soap; the drying, mixing, and extruding steps are calibrated to give the finished soap the desired properties.

The benefits of hot process --
Saponifying fatty acids to make soap -- stearic acid in shave soap is an example
Working with ingredients that have high melting temperature -- beeswax, rosin, fatty acids, etc.
Using fragrances that don't play well with active lye
Using the minimum amount of a fragrance due to its cost or limited availability
Superfatting the soap with a specific fat -- this works at least temporarily

 

[earlene]

live in major city. What kind of store sells cheap almond oil? Im having difficulty finding it. We dont have the old hippy health food stores anymore. Miss them.

Try looking in the health food section of grocery stores and pharmacy type stores (CVS, Walgreens, even Walmart, and Target). I have discovered it in the 'health & beauty' sections of those in kinds of stores over the past couple of years, and not in the cooking oils section anymore. Some ethnic food store used to carry it in nearby cities in my area but I haven't checked lately. I have also seen it at The Vitamine Shoppe, so if you have one of those or similar stores, check there.

 

[DeeAnna]

Sweet almond might also be found in the pharmacy section. It will be called "sweet oil" but check the ingredients list to make sure the oil is actually almond. I won't say it will be cheap, but the pharmacy may be a quick, local source. Same thing for castor.

A few drops of barely warm sweet oil can be put in the ear to soothe an ear ache. My mom used to do that.

 

[dixiedragon]

For almond oil, try Whole Foods, Home Goods and Vitamin Shoppe.

 

[dixiedragon]

How many batches of soap have you made? It can be very discouraging trying to "save" a bad batch, especially if you are new! You have my permission ( ) to give this soap away, or even throw it away and start from scratch.

 

[IrishLass]

OMG I just made ugly mash potato soap for no reason!

LOL. Welcome, Dean! As ugly as it might look, it's still be perfectly good soap. You can always grate it up and add it as decorative 'soap confetti' to a new CP batch.


IrishLass

 

[Dean]

How many batches of soap have you made? It can be very discouraging trying to "save" a bad batch, especially if you are new! You have my permission ( ) to give this soap away, or even throw it away and start from scratch.

Thanks Dixie. I promised people soap but I didn't want to give them something that would make them leery of my soap in the future. I tried to fix the soap (don't ask me how because I won't confess my shame here). It was an EPIC failure. Right now its probably clogging Los Angeles' sewer pipes.

Made batch four yesterday. HP (first batch of HP), CO, Almond, cocoa butter and castro oil, and orange. Came out ok. Definitely softer than 100% CO. Didn't like cocoa butter scent with the orange. Chocolate and orange is my favorite flavor combo but not so great in soap. Will leave out the orange next time and use up the cocoa butter, then buy deodorized cocoa butter next time.

 

[Dean]

LOL. Welcome, Dean! As ugly as it might look, it's still be perfectly good soap. You can always grate it up and add it as decorative 'soap confetti' to a new CP batch.


IrishLass

Thanks. I actually don't mind the uglies. When I make a batch worth sharing I'll plane it.

 

[Dean]

"...I read somewhere HP is ready in a day to week...."

I know, I know. A lot of people have this idea, but it really isn't accurate. Sorry to burst your bubble.

CP and HP are two different ways to saponify the soap, but they aren't two different ways to cure the soap. You can use CP soap or HP soap right after saponification is over -- a few hours for HP, a day or two for CP -- but any soap at this age is going to wear away quicker in the shower, won't lather as abundantly and easily, and may not feel quite as mild to the skin compared with soap that is several weeks older.

Curing relates to the time needed to finish any last tiny bits of saponification, evaporate excess moisture, and form a crystalline structure within the soap. Arguably hot process soap, since it usually has more liquid in it, may take even longer to cure than cold process. But suffice to say, neither method offers any big shortcut, if you want your soap to perform at its best when you give it to someone or sell it.

When I've measured the rate of moisture evaporation, it takes at least 4 weeks for the rate of water loss to really slow down for a typical bath soap. About that time, the bar has also become reasonably hard and the lather is decent, although maybe not quite at its prime. So 4 weeks is the shortest time I will cure a typical bath soap before I let it go out the door. Many people advocate curing 6-8 weeks or longer before use. Long cure times can be especially helpful for some types of soaps such as 100% olive oil soap or salt soaps.

I did a little more research on HP and curing. I read that moisture evaporates during cooking. Do you agree? Could evaporation be further encouraged by leaving the lid off during cooking?

 

[IrishLass]

Not DeeAnna, but yes, moisture evaporates during cooking. The problem with leaving the lid off during the cook is that you'll end up with a dry, unworkable mass, i.e., instead of mashed potatoes, you'll end up with something more the consistency of cooked ground beef that won't hold together.


IrishLass

 

[Dean]

Not DeeAnna, but yes, moisture evaporates during cooking. The problem with leaving the lid off during the cook is that you'll end up with a dry, unworkable mass, i.e., instead of mashed potatoes, you'll end up with something more the consistency of cooked ground beef that won't hold together.


IrishLass

Thanks Lass. Love the Irish, especially the pubs and music.

 

[DeeAnna]

What IL said.

 

[dixiedragon]

Thanks Dixie. I promised people soap but I didn't want to give them something that would make them leery of my soap in the future. I tried to fix the soap (don't ask me how because I won't confess my shame here). It was an EPIC failure. Right now its probably clogging Los Angeles' sewer pipes.

Made batch four yesterday. HP (first batch of HP), CO, Almond, cocoa butter and castro oil, and orange. Came out ok. Definitely softer than 100% CO. Didn't like cocoa butter scent with the orange. Chocolate and orange is my favorite flavor combo but not so great in soap. Will leave out the orange next time and use up the cocoa butter, then buy deodorized cocoa butter next time.

Let it cure and the cocoa butter scent will probably fade. If you post your recipe, we can troubleshoot!

 

[Dean]

Let it cure and the cocoa butter scent will probably fade. If you post your recipe, we can troubleshoot!

The 100% CO 20% SF CP is what I threw out. I should have kept it to strip paint.

My HP batch from this weekend was:

• 30 % CO
• 15% Cocoa Butter
• 45% Almond Oil
• 10% Castor Oil
• 5% SF
• Intentionally palm and animal free.

Its still curing so I haven't tried it yet. Will sneak a test this weekend. I know...needs more cure time but I'm out of soap and I'm not donating more $ to Dr. Bronner after spending a small fortune on soap equipment and supplies.

It seemed a little soft. How much more butter should I add to increase the hardness? Also, how high do you think I can go with the butter without it affecting the lather?

 

[dixiedragon]

I like this recipe:
50% shea
5% castor
20% coconut
25% sunflower
2% superfat

I am thinking try a small high cocoa butter batch. By dropping the superfat to 2%, it helps to compensate for the unsaponifiables in the shea butter that kill the lather.

In the case of your recipe, the softness is probably from your 10% castor. My suggestion:

40% cocoa butter
20% coconut
5% castor
35% sweet almond (or divide between sweet almond and something else, such as olive or sunflower.)
2% superfat

 

[Dean]

I like this recipe:
50% shea
5% castor
20% coconut
25% sunflower
2% superfat

I am thinking try a small high cocoa butter batch. By dropping the superfat to 2%, it helps to compensate for the unsaponifiables in the shea butter that kill the lather.

In the case of your recipe, the softness is probably from your 10% castor. My suggestion:

40% cocoa butter
20% coconut
5% castor
35% sweet almond (or divide between sweet almond and something else, such as olive or sunflower.)
2% superfat

Thanks. I 'm also thinking of venturing into shea and soy wax instead of cocoa butter for economics.

 

[Dean]

I doubt more oil will tame this soap. Your skin may be sensitive to the high % of lauric and myristic acids from the coconut oil, and that problem won't disappear with more oil. You should probably grate the soap and add it as "confetti" to a new batch of soap that has very low or no coconut oil and a very low superfat. The new soap will balance the unbalanced properties of the coconut oil soap and the result should be milder. Only thing to keep in mind is your skin may be the type that can't handle any lauric-myristic acid at all.

I just tried DeeAnnas suggestion. Altho I missed the part bout no SF. Its 5% SF. Made a batch of CP 92% almond and 8% castor soap. It traced and then I mixed it with the shavings. It BARELY warmed up in the mold. Do u think it will saponify?