Ready to give up

[shunt2011]

I agree with the others. It's just cosmetic. Spraying with alcohol and covering may help. I may be one of the fortunate ones who rarely gets ash (now I've probably jinxed myself). I do spray and cover and leave the cover on for 18-24 hours with just quick peeks to make sure it's not overheating. Anything I remove the cover one sooner does get a bit of ash.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what the others have said- don't give up! Especially over something as benign and commonplace as ash.

Having said that, it's very rare that I get ash anymore ever since I lowered my water amount and encourage all my batches to gel. I also make sure my soap is protected from the air as it's saponifying by covering my mold..... and I don't uncover/unmold until my soap has cooled down from gel.


IrishLass

 

[Seawolfe]

Soda ash can actually add visual interest, and truly no big deal. If you do get it just steam or rinse it off.
Study up on water discounting and it will become more rare.

 

[DeeAnna]

Since you have ash on the cut surfaces of the bar, it might not work 100% to treat the top of your soap while in the mold -- you may still get ash on the other surfaces after you unmold the soap. I'd guess you are using a recipe with a low lye solution concentration (lots of water). You might try slightly less water, such as a lye concentration of 30%, and see if that helps.

But, really, everyone is right -- ash happens to everyone at one time or another. It's not a big deal, and your soap is most likely perfectly fine. Embrace the ash!

 

[Jstar]

Yup, ash..not a big deal at all..dont let that discourage you..you're doing great!

I dont get much ash anymore, but when I do I just leave it be..sometimes ash give the soaps a unique appearance that you can't get any other way.

I have yet to try it, but I saw a vid one time where the soaper took her soap that while still in the mold and ready to cut, run it under hot water and let it dry again a bit and then cut it..no ash and no planing needed after that.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I have to ask - what is it that you are looking to make? Why are you talking about giving up before you even begin to troubleshoot? Some tough-love here, but soaping is not always simple and things will go wrong - if you want to produce perfect soaps every time from the start then maybe it is best that you give up now. If you want to make soaps that are great to use even if they look odd, and you acknowledge that there will be mistakes along the way, then welcome to the world of soaping.

It can take time to work out certain issues in soaping as it depends on a lot of variables that will be particular to you and your location, recipe and so on. People here can offer guidance, but it will take some work on your part to actually put it all together.

So quit, if you don't want to make soap. Or stay and make soap.

 

[not_ally]

Also, have you thought of using a mold that is not single bars? Soda ash forms on the outside, so the more surface area you have, the more ash you will get. If you use a log/slab it will reduce that, plus it will be easier to clean - you can just spray/dunk the whole thing rather than individual bars. Is that right, you math-y types, or am I figuring wrong?

If you want to try it out and don't yet have log/slab molds, you can test on empty household containers like milk cartons (maybe someone else can chip in here w/suggestions, I am not that creative regarding those b/c I had log molds from making mp before I started w/cp.

 

[commoncenz]

Also, have you thought of using a mold that is not single bars? Soda ash forms on the outside, so the more surface area you have, the more ash you will get. If you use a log/slab it will reduce that, plus it will be easier to clean - you can just spray/dunk the whole thing rather than individual bars. Is that right, you math-y types, or am I figuring wrong?

If you want to try it out and don't yet have log/slab molds, you can test on empty household containers like milk cartons (maybe someone else can chip in here w/suggestions, I am not that creative regarding those b/c I had log molds from making mp before I started w/cp.

Within the last month I have used shoe boxes, a plastic tupperware container that is roughly the size of a 5 lb slab mold, some small boxes that my colors from Nurture Soap arrived in and the plastic cover off of a stack of blank dvds that I cut the closed end off of, lined with mineral oil and sealed off on both ends with pieces of a silicone mat that I cut to fit.

Basically, you are only limited by your imagination (and the laws of chemistry and physics) when it comes to what you can use as a mold.

 

[cmzaha]

One of my favorite Papaya recipes gets ash so thick, even with a 33% lye concentration, it takes a couple of showers for it to wash off :-D. I simply do not worry about it and neither do my customers. Alcohol has never stopped the recipes I have that form ash consistently

 

[dillsandwitch]

I have found lately with my cpop experiments that after pour I put it in the oven and leave it for about 10 or so minutes till it gets hard enough to not dent if touched. I thin put my cling wrap over and then let it go through gel. Haven't had ash on any of the 10 or so batches I have done this way.

I leave it on for 24 hours + to whenever Im ready to un-mould and cut. Basically till it doesn't zap anymore.

Maybe you can give the cling wrap idea a go even using your individual moulds. Since you dont need to worry about cutting you'd be right to leave it for days covered if need be to prevent the ash. obviously less time if you gel them, Hope that helps you out some

 

[dixiedragon]

I don't mind a little soda ash on the top of my loaf - but I HATE it when I use a pretty individual mold and it is all over the place!

 

[not_ally]

Quote: "have found lately with my cpop experiments that after pour I put it in the oven and leave it for about 10 or so minutes till it gets hard enough to not dent if touched. I thin put my cling wrap over and then let it go through gel. Haven't had ash on any of the 10 or so batches I have done this way."

Dillandswhitch, and OP, I think this jibes with the thread regarding ash that just revived, where DeeAnna talks about ash being formed by the reaction b/w lye and CO2 in the air during saponification, most of which takes place in the first 24 hrs. It makes sense that reducing that exposure with cling wrap (or some other barrier) would reduce ash formation during that really active time.

OP, if you're still out there, you should read that thread, it is pretty interesting and informative.

 

[DeeAnna]

Not ally -- is it this one? http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46697

 

[not_ally]

Yup, that's it.

 

[scottcote3]

ok; Thanks for all the info on ash. The other (worse) problem that I have is that every batch that I make looks perfect and I bring to a light trace, pour into a 3 lb mold and into individual molds. But within 3-6 hours, EVERY and I mean EVERY batch I make has gone through the entire curing process. The 3 lb mold is ruined as I cannot cut it without the soap just chunking off. Is it because I live on the 15th floor of a highrise in Dallas? Maybe I need a new scale. Here is one of the recipes:

9-1/2 oz coconut oil
8 oz shea butter
16 oz almond oil
4 oz borage oil
2 oz apricot kernel oil
13 oz distilled water
5-1/2 oz sodium hydroxide
2 tsp vitamin e oil.

I have a big tub of coconut oil and noticed that it is typically in batter form instead of liquid when I measure it. I assume that's not an issue. I also make sure my temperatures of the oils vs caustic are around 10 degrees apart before blending. Any ideas?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It hasn't gone through the entire curing process after that time. It might be hard, but the solution to that is to actually babysit a batch that you don't know to see how long it needs and cut it when it is ready. My 100% co bars are ready to cut almost as soon as they are poured. If I waited any time at all they would be too hard. You can take times as suggestions, but the actual time will depend on your recipe and your situation (hot house, damp air and so on)

 

[not_ally]

Couple of thoughts. As EG noted, the curing process takes much longer - really months, at least four weeks before a soap has cured long for most of the mavens to consider ready to use - so not sure what you mean by the fact that it is cured, is it that it is hardening fast so that it crumbles when it is cut? Or alternately, really soft so that it sticks in chunks when you try to cut? Also, and this may be related, that is a high percentage of shea, it works out to 20.25 if I put this into the MMS calculator correctly. Most people recommend using butters at 10% or less.

I would try a couple of things: smaller batches for now until you have things worked out. You have about 40 oz of oils there, maybe try a lb - 24 oz so that if things go wrong there is less to have to throw out/fix.

Use a really simple recipe, with basic oils. Eg, I don't even know what kind of oil borage is, so can't give any input on it, many may have the same problem. Plus it is usually easier, cheaper, and simpler to tweak with more basic stuff in part b/c there is more info on them and more people can advise on them. And they make great soap!

I am one of the resident lard fanatics, so I would recommend the basic recipe that Susie - our lard goddess - does for beginners, here it is (you can sub palm for lard if you have issues w/lard):

"Palm/Tallow/Lard 55%
Olive Oil 20%
Coconut Oil 20%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5-8%

I add 1 tsp/PPO sugar to boost bubbles. Give it 4-6 weeks cure, and it should be fine."

If you want to check your scale, here's an easy-ish way to do it: http://lifehacker.com/test-your-kitchen-scale-s-accuracy-with-pocket-change-1638466253

 

[not_ally]

Although this just occurred to me, I have never thought of it before b/c I always use lard. Susie, or anyway else out there that has subbed palm in that recipe: does it make it a v. fast tracing and drying bar if you do? The palm and coconut totals to 75%, that seems pretty high.

EDTA: Don't want to derail this thread, OP or mods, should I move the last couple of posts? I am afraid of becoming know of "that de-railing woman" to the mods b/c I ramble so much. Just don't want to recommend a fast-tracing/drying recipe to beginners if it is likely to be one.

 

[not_ally]

In the meantime, here's a cut and paste of a post shared by Mr. Lee Bussy, of his favorite beginner soap. I would sub regular OO for the pomace in this, though, pomace traces faster. And it does, again, contain lard. But if someone does not opine on the 75% palm/coconut mix, this is a total of 54% for those if you choose to sub palm for lard, which brings it closer to the "trinity" mixes that many recommend for beginners.
-----------------
"My favorite bar soap (so far) is a recipe IrishLass shared:

40 Pomace Olive Oil (can buy any 100% Olive Oil for this)
27 Lard (Manteca or Armor brand in the grocery stores)
25 Coconut Oil (Health food stores have this, some groceries. A little more expensive local but you can "impulse" buy it on the weekend)
8 Castor Oil (also available in most drug stores)
Superfat 6%

You can buy everything on one trip out on a Saturday morning in most towns in the US (I have done it) and have soap in the mold by lunch. That and lard makes a fantastic bar soap."

 

[DeeAnna]

"...The 3 lb mold is ruined as I cannot cut it without the soap just chunking off...."

Another question related to when you cut the soap is -- ~How~ are you cutting your soap? Are you using a wide knife? A flat "bench scraper" type of cutter? A wire cutter?

Your recipe, made as written, should result in the soap being fairly hard when you remove it from the mold. The large % of shea may also be contributing unsaponifiable ingredients that add to the hardness/brittleness. I'd say choosing a good time to cut this particular soap will be important, but choosing a good way to cut it may also be critical.

Another thought -- why is the mold itself ruined? How are you using the mold to make this soap? Are you lining it? Is it a silicone mold? ???

A couple of comments --

The combination of the borage and almond oils in this recipe is raising your linoleic+linolenic % fairly high. This may make this soap more prone to DOS/rancidity. Might want to consider tweaking the amounts of these ingredients to reduce that risk.

Also, borage is an expensive oil that is probably going to give more benefit to the skin if left intact rather than turned into soap. Why not save it for leave-on products?