Quick trace

[MacDouglas]

So I keep reading and seeing online that once you ask the lye/water mixture to the oils you need to hit it with a stick blender for “sometimes up to 10 minutes” before it gets to trace but mine keeps going to trace almost immediately. Am I doing something wrong or do some recipes just get there quicker? I’m following the recipe to the gram.

 

[Misschief]

It would be very helpful if you would post your recipe. It will be easier to troubleshoot if we know what you're doing.

 

[soapmaker]

Yes some recipes trace much faster than others. Recipes with a high percentage of hard fats trace faster. A large amount of castor oil traces faster. Lard traces very slow.

 

[BattleGnome]

Also some important information, what are you calling trace?

After I joined this forum I realized I was waiting for a medium to heavy trace. It’s so much easier to look for emulsion/light trace, especially since my recipe likes thicken when it sits. A quick stir with a spatula usually loosens it up though

 

[lsg]

Olive pomace is said to make for a fast trace. Some FOs also make the soap trace fast.

 

[MacDouglas]

Beer -11.2 oz
Lye- 4.19 oz

Shea butter -8 oz
Red palm oil 4.8 oz
Coconut oil- 8 oz
Olive oil- 6.4 oz
Castor oil 4.8 oz

Also some important information, what are you calling trace?

After I joined this forum I realized I was waiting for a medium to heavy trace. It’s so much easier to look for emulsion/light trace, especially since my recipe likes thicken when it sits. A quick stir with a spatula usually loosens it up though

And I'm calling trace mayonaise consistency. Thick enough to stand a large spoon and not smooth over when stirred

 

[Misschief]

Olive pomace is said to make for a fast trace. Some FOs also make the soap trace fast.

I've never found pomace to hasten the trace; I used to use it all the time. Unfortunately, the store that carried it no longer does.

 

[dibbles]

The beer will definitely speed things up. A lot.

 

[ItsForrest]

Beer -11.2 oz
Lye- 4.19 oz

Shea butter -8 oz
Red palm oil 4.8 oz
Coconut oil- 8 oz
Olive oil- 6.4 oz
Castor oil 4.8 oz



And I'm calling trace mayonaise consistency. Thick enough to stand a large spoon and not smooth over when stirred

How are you preparing your beer? Are you boiling it to remove alcohol and carbonation?
What temp are you soaping at? You have 50% hard oils (Shea butter and coconut oil) so if you are soaping too cool it may be oils stiffening up and not trace. Others with more experience know better than I but 25% shea butter seems high.

 

[MacDouglas]

How are you preparing your beer? Are you boiling it to remove alcohol and carbonation?
What temp are you soaping at? You have 50% hard oils (Shea butter and coconut oil) so if you are soaping too cool it may be oils stiffening up and not trace. Others with more experience know better than I but 25% shea butter seems high.

It's a Brown ale, stick blender to flatten it, measured and frozen with alcohol. I haven't had a problem with the lye "volcano-ing."
This is the first time I tried this recipe. I just took what oils I had and adjusted them until the numbers were all kind of in the middle.
I'm VERY new at this and it's been tough sorting through all of the (sometimes conflicting) advice. I do hot process with a crock pot. I don't know the temps, I just heat the oils until they melt to clear

 

[Obsidian]

You need to remove all the alcohol and carbonation, not only can it cause volcano but acceleration. Shea and palm can also trace quickly. I wouldn't use any butter over 20%, 15% is my max. Too much can really reduce lather.
For this recipe, I would soap coolish and be gentle with the SB. For the record, mayo consistency is way thick. Think more along the line of ranch dressing.

I've never had any soap take 10 minutes to trace, even my slow moving recipes are at light trace before then.

 

[MacDouglas]

It came out pretty good. But like I said, almost instantly went to trace, was at mashed potato in about 10 min. Was ready for mold in 45.

 

[MacDouglas]

Thanks everyone, this is very helpful

 

[Obsidian]

Missed this is HP. Quick trace really isn't something to worry about with HP. Since it traced so quickly, I'm going to blame the alcohol.
I boil my beer down to a syrup, that way I can fit a whole bottle into a batch and I don't have to deal with any acceleration. Plus, I mix it right into my oils so I skip the nasty beer and lye smell.

 

[MacDouglas]

So... how does that work? One of the things that's been bugging me has been that wet-grain smell from the beer/lye. Do you mix water with the lye and just add the water to the beer weight when calculating?

 

[cmzaha]

You say it was ready to mold in 45 min. Are you hp processing?
First off you really should cook off the alcohol. Even if you have never had a volcano it does not mean you will not, so do not become complacent when using any alcohol in soap. It is always recommended to cook off the alcohol

You are using high castor oil which will really accelerate trace, 5% is enough in any recipe. Also your CO is pretty high at 25%, I cannot really use any soap higher than 17- 15% CO other than in salt bars

 

[Obsidian]

Pretty much. If the beer syrup weighs 2 oz, I subtract that amount from the water and mix the lye with the remaining water. You will still get a tiny amount of weird smell but its gone by the next day. Not sure how HP will change that, I only make CP.

Just make sure you don't burn your beer when reducing it. It can take 20 minutes or more at a high simmer, don't try to rush it.
You can reduce 2 or 3 bottle at once and freeze what you won't use right away. I generally add 1 oz beer syrup PPO. I use a dark double stout and it gives me a nice medium brown soap.

 

[psfred]

All the sugars in the beer speeds HP up quite a bit by producing significant extra heat.

Your soap sounds quite normal to me for HP -- I use hot oils, hot lye, and get trace in a few minutes. I'm not making swirls or anything, just single color soap, so fast HP is fine by me. I can have the bars cut in three hours in the winter.

I'd back off the coconut oil though unless you can tolerate very drying soap. I have very oily skin and 10% is my limit.

 

[earlene]

That's a lot of castor. You also have other hard oils in there that speed trace. Heat speeds trace and so does sugar and alcohol. So you're lucky you didn't end up with a volcano... Or did you?

To Misschief, I use pomace as half my olive oil in Castile specifically to speed up trace. For me it does so significantly. With 50% pomace I don't even have to stick blend to get it to trace in just a few minutes, whereas with just plain OO, it takes forever to hand stir to emulsion. And this is CP, not HP, I am talking about.