My most recent test batch has a light pink rind around the outside of each bar. I've only had that happen once before (a couple years ago). I'm hoping it doesn't happen on my next batch. How can I avoid this? Can this happen with another new container of lard or will it happen with every new tub of lard because of the particular fragrance? This was my first time using a silicone loaf liner/mold and my first time using sodium citrate and powdered sugar (1.5% each). I used the same base recipe I have used for months now and the exact same brands of oils and lard (all fairly new and well within date). The last time I had this pinking happen, according to my notes, was also a fragranced lard heavy batch, but the pink hue was throughout the bars (not just the outside) and looked quite nice.
Quick Lardinator Question!
- Thread starter Servant4Christ
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I've had "pinking" occur 2-3x with high coconut oil recipes, and 2-3x with high-lard recipes using commercial lard with BHT in it. It has never happened with my home-rendered lard.
All of these batches were gelled. They *may* have been gelled at higher heat or for longer than my normal temp/time. My notes aren't great on that issue, but that was my best recollection when I was going through this.
The majority of these were unfragranced batches. Still, I wouldn't rule out FO (or any other additive, for that matter) being a cause of, or a contributor to the pink hue.
I wish I could give you a better answer than that; maybe someone else will have more insight. BTW, if your bar currently has a pink rind, then just like a brown vanillin rind, you can expect that to spread through the rest of the bars as it cures. I've never had a rind that remained as just a rind.
All of these batches were gelled. They *may* have been gelled at higher heat or for longer than my normal temp/time. My notes aren't great on that issue, but that was my best recollection when I was going through this.
The majority of these were unfragranced batches. Still, I wouldn't rule out FO (or any other additive, for that matter) being a cause of, or a contributor to the pink hue.
I wish I could give you a better answer than that; maybe someone else will have more insight. BTW, if your bar currently has a pink rind, then just like a brown vanillin rind, you can expect that to spread through the rest of the bars as it cures. I've never had a rind that remained as just a rind.
Thanks. I'm just curious to why it happened THIS time and not EVERY time I've used the same recipe. Obviously, some things were different but not the base recipe. I wonder if it only happens with occasional batches of the same brand lard. Strange, but possible, I suppose. Now I'm seriously considering tracking down some leaf lard to try. I wish I had a local source.
I've seen this "pinking" in my soap a few times. It seems to happen somewhat randomly. The key thing for "pinking" to happen is the presence of phenolic compounds that oxidize in an alkaline environment. I suspect higher temps might increase the chance that "pinking" may happen. The result is part or all of a light-colored soap will be tinted to a pinkish, yellowish, or purple-ish shade.
The preservatives BHA and BHT are phenolic compounds often used in commercial lard, so they're most likely the culprits.
There might be phenolic compounds in some fragrances that might also "pink", but you'd have to know enough about the chemical composition of the fragrance to have a better idea if this is the culprit.
My best guess is the culprit is the preservatives in your lard. I often use commercial lard and I usually use a high % of lard in my recipes. While I have seen this pinking effect in my soap, it only rarely happens, so I don't worry too much about it.
See also https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/plain-soap-turning-purple.58030/page-2#post-583519
The preservatives BHA and BHT are phenolic compounds often used in commercial lard, so they're most likely the culprits.
There might be phenolic compounds in some fragrances that might also "pink", but you'd have to know enough about the chemical composition of the fragrance to have a better idea if this is the culprit.
My best guess is the culprit is the preservatives in your lard. I often use commercial lard and I usually use a high % of lard in my recipes. While I have seen this pinking effect in my soap, it only rarely happens, so I don't worry too much about it.
See also https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/plain-soap-turning-purple.58030/page-2#post-583519
Thank you. This goes along with my theory that it's the combination of specific fragrance components along with the preservatives/antioxidants in the lard. I don't get this reaction with other batches (same recipe) that use other fragrances or unscented. I'm seriously wondering if the commonality is in the orange or floral components. The 2 times I've had this happen were using Lone Star's Neroli Nirvana and Nurture's Orange + Ginger. They both accelerate, btw.
I had pinking in my lard soap made with Armour lard from Walmart. I’ve also had pink with lard from Soapers Choice when they still added preservatives.
In October I made three batches of lard soap, 2 with home rendered lard and 1 with Armour. The Armour soap turned pink, but the home rendered lard soap did not. I gelled all 3 batches with CPOP. After a short period of time into the cure, the pink was gone from the Armour batch and you could not tell soaps apart.
I hope the same happens for you @Servant4Christ!
In October I made three batches of lard soap, 2 with home rendered lard and 1 with Armour. The Armour soap turned pink, but the home rendered lard soap did not. I gelled all 3 batches with CPOP. After a short period of time into the cure, the pink was gone from the Armour batch and you could not tell soaps apart.
I hope the same happens for you @Servant4Christ!
All the more reason for me to start searching for local farms and/or butchers that might have lard.
I’ve been looking at lard reviews in my America’s Test Kitchen app and see that the supermarket brands are hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated. John Morrell is partially hydrogenated; Armour is fully hydrogenated.
Does that change the soap properties? Or change lye requirements? (I’m thinking of the difference between soybean oil and hydrogenated soy wax.). Calling @DeeAnna!
A side note, Morrell and Armour also contain preservatives and citric acid.
Edited to add: I just found one of DeeAnna’s posts that answers my question.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/quick-question-hydrogenated-fats.41663/post-416386
Does that change the soap properties? Or change lye requirements? (I’m thinking of the difference between soybean oil and hydrogenated soy wax.). Calling @DeeAnna!
A side note, Morrell and Armour also contain preservatives and citric acid.
Edited to add: I just found one of DeeAnna’s posts that answers my question.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/quick-question-hydrogenated-fats.41663/post-416386
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Does hydrogenation change the lye requirements? No. The saponification value for the hydrogenated fat remains the same as for the non-hydrogenated version.
Does it change the soap properties? Yes, it does but the amount of change will depend on the degree of hydrogenation.
A higher degree of hydrogenation means the lard contains less oleic acid and more stearic acid. Fat high in oleic acid is liquid-ish at room temp. Fat high in stearic is solid-ish at room temp (think palm, shea, lard, tallow.) Fat that is higher in saturated fatty acids (in other words, fat that is more hydrogenated) is less likely to go rancid.
More stearic content in the lard will reduce the water solubility of the soap and increase its physical hardness. But again the amount of change depends on the degree of hydrogenation. I'm not sure how much they hydrogenate lard.
When I compare my home rendered lard with commercial lard, I can see small differences -- the home rendered is softer and gets kind of runny when it's warm in the house. Commercial lard can be a soft-ish paste, but doesn't get runny at normal room temps.
My guess is they're hydrogenating just enough to increase the melting temperature for reliable storage at room temperature, but not enough to harden the lard to the point it behaves like wax. But that's just my guess -- I don't have numbers for proof.
Does it change the soap properties? Yes, it does but the amount of change will depend on the degree of hydrogenation.
A higher degree of hydrogenation means the lard contains less oleic acid and more stearic acid. Fat high in oleic acid is liquid-ish at room temp. Fat high in stearic is solid-ish at room temp (think palm, shea, lard, tallow.) Fat that is higher in saturated fatty acids (in other words, fat that is more hydrogenated) is less likely to go rancid.
More stearic content in the lard will reduce the water solubility of the soap and increase its physical hardness. But again the amount of change depends on the degree of hydrogenation. I'm not sure how much they hydrogenate lard.
When I compare my home rendered lard with commercial lard, I can see small differences -- the home rendered is softer and gets kind of runny when it's warm in the house. Commercial lard can be a soft-ish paste, but doesn't get runny at normal room temps.
My guess is they're hydrogenating just enough to increase the melting temperature for reliable storage at room temperature, but not enough to harden the lard to the point it behaves like wax. But that's just my guess -- I don't have numbers for proof.
Same here. I’m still a little conflicted about whether I want to render lard or buy it. I can only render fats during cold months. It’s good to know I don’t need to change sap values for store bought lard, plus it will keep better stored in the basement. Thank you for the info!
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