Question about "Natural"

[lordmorbious]

Ive been looking around. and havent found anything that explains what makes "All Natural Soap" be "All Natural" So could someone clear this up for me please? is Lye natural? or would i need to go with a no lye recipie? If anyone maybe knows a link or 2 on the forums here to an "All Natural" recipie that would help. I know im asking alot of questions. but im lookin forward to this and i want to do it right...lol

 

[Deda]

I don't think many soapers will just give you their recipe, considering you've announced your intention to sell.

I'd suggest you read Every.Single.Word on millersoap.com


Of course, please read this first.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17621

 

[lordmorbious]

wasnt asking for any recipie that wasnt posted already. im just wanting to understand "All Natural" im all for private recipies. just looking 4 common ones. and i will def check that out. Thank you.

 

[BakingNana]

What's a no-lye recipe? I think you have a lot of studying to do before trying that first batch. Read Miller's as Deda said, then get yourself several really good, detailed soapmaking books and read them cover to cover more than once. Then...when you cruise the forum, things will make much more sense to you. Soapmaking isn't something you can just decide to do. It takes an enormous amount of study. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with melt and pour to begin with. Selling at craft fairs should not be something you consider for quite a long time.

 

[Tacoma]

Well, it is my understanding you can not make a bar of soap without using lye, so if you are thinking of making a hard bar of soap you have to use it.

Is lye natural? First you have to ask yourself does it occur naturally in nature? If you answered no consider this , If there is a forest fire and after the fire is out it rains and all that rainwater and ash flow down hill and collect in a low spot, then the sun dries the water up all that is left is a highly caustic alkalai powder left on the ground. Guess what that powder is? You can do the same thing by burning wood and then soaking the ashes in a tub of water, drain the water off and collect the lye. So I would say yes lye is natural.

When you make soap and you add lye to the fats you are using, if you do it correctly you convert the lye and the fats to soap. In a finished product there is no more lye in it because it has been converted. Now you could say that soap in and of itself is not a natural product but if you used all natural ingredients then you can call it all natural soap. I hope this helps.
A good book to read would be "The Soap Maker's Companion" Aslo I hope you understand how caustic Lye can be. If you are not careful it can definitely ruin your day. Good Luck. Dave

 

[lordmorbious]

Saw in the book "the everything soap making book 2nd edition" that if you arent comfortable with using lye at first. u should use a non lye recipie. and ok let me get soemthing out there...lol. im not planning on selling soap at my next craft show. i know it takes a while to learn. and before i sell it i want my product to be good. so that takes even more time. i didnt clarafy b4. and thats my fault. i plan to learn soapmaking over time. and when im ready. start selling it. I have the rest of the business part set up. the 30th was my 1st craft show. but i have worked the flea market for long time. Im just now looking into the soapmaking. i dont expect to start selling for at least a year. I have so much to learn. if u cant tell from my questions. But im asking the noob questions because i know i am a noob. and i am reading the book i listed. and im asking questions here. so i can get a little understanding b4 i even consider trying to make my 1st batch. so please know that i have no idea what im doing yet..lol and that i am working to learn what im doing. already bookmarked the website you both said. Im just here to talk soap. and hopefully learn about soapmaking.

 

[BakingNana]

Saw in the book "the everything soap making book 2nd edition" that if you arent comfortable with using lye at first. u should use a non lye recipie. and ok let me get soemthing out there...lol. im not planning on selling soap at my next craft show. i know it takes a while to learn. and before i sell it i want my product to be good. so that takes even more time. i didnt clarafy b4. and thats my fault. i plan to learn soapmaking over time. and when im ready. start selling it. I have the rest of the business part set up. the 30th was my 1st craft show. but i have worked the flea market for long time. Im just now looking into the soapmaking. i dont expect to start selling for at least a year. I have so much to learn. if u cant tell from my questions. But im asking the noob questions because i know i am a noob. and i am reading the book i listed. and im asking questions here. so i can get a little understanding b4 i even consider trying to make my 1st batch. so please know that i have no idea what im doing yet..lol and that i am working to learn what im doing. already bookmarked the website you both said. Im just here to talk soap. and hopefully learn about soapmaking.

Thanks for clarifying!! Incidently, I love that book. I cut my teeth on it. (Don't agree with adding oils at trace to superfat, tho....unnecessary. But that discussion will come later!). And yes, she means melt and pour when she refers to "non lye" recipe. It's not that it's a "no lye" soap; it's just that the soap base has already been made (with lye) and all you have to do is melt it, add any goodies you want to add, then pour it into a mold. Instant gratification. There are incredible melt and pour artists on this forum. They do some marvelous stuff. Check out the Photo Gallery. I have absolutely no M and P artistic talent. CP is my thing. If you have half as much fun learning as I did, you're in for it! Can you spell A-D-D-I-C-T-I-O-N????

I also think you're going to be surprised at how long it takes to get to the selling point. More than a year, I'm afraid. For CP, anyway.

 

[lordmorbious]

ok that makes a lil more sense. I hadnt gotten to what it meant in the book yet. (i will read it cover to cover then use it for reference..lol) And im hoping it is addicting..lol. i am looking for a hobbie i can enjoy. I have alot. but i like a variety..lol. And yeah i expect a long time before selling. But that ok. i have alot of other things i already sell at the craft shows.

 

[BakingNana]

Happy Soaping!

 

[xyxoxy]

The phrase "All Natural" is meaningless.
If you find a tree that grows bars of soap then maybe you have an "All Natural" soap... otherwise it is manufactured. But that doesn't stop people from putting those words on a label.

Also if you find and use a recipe that does not contain lye, then you will not be making soap. Perhaps you can make something that lathers to some degree but it won't be soap.

 

[PrairieCraft]

A soap tree!!



"All natural" is a marketing ploy. It sure does sound good, though it falls short of explaining what "real" soap is and how it is different and better than store bought stuff. Now that I know what goes into soap making, when I see a soapmaker claiming that their soap is all natural I can't help but feel that they are lying to the public.

 

[soapbuddy]

The word "natural" has lost its meaning over the years. It means different things to different people. Big name companies use it in large letters on their labels, yet when you look at their ingredient list, maybe just one thing out of all the ingredients is natural.

 

[phpworm]

Maybe just my opinion, but I certainly don't think the words "all natural" are meaningless or a marketing ploy, it's just that too many people think the words are synonymous with "organic" and they're not.

All natural simply refers to things of nature; not synthetic, but not necessarily environmentally friendly. Palm oil for example is a natural product, even though they might be destroying the homes of orangutans to get it, which makes it non-organic (depending where you buy it). Organic refers to renewable (not necessarily natural) products or products that have little to no impact on the environment.

Some people claim to be allergic to synthetic products, so they specifically seek out the "all natural" labels. Are sellers abusing the term? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it meaningless, it just makes the people behind it crooks.

At least, that's how I interpret it.

 

[dagmar88]

Maybe just my opinion, but I certainly don't think the words "all natural" are meaningless or a marketing ploy, it's just that too many people think the words are synonymous with "organic" and they're not.

All natural simply refers to things of nature; not synthetic, but not necessarily environmentally friendly. Palm oil for example is a natural product, even though they might be destroying the homes of orangutans to get it, which makes it non-organic (depending where you buy it). Organic refers to renewable (not necessarily natural) products or products that have little to no impact on the environment.

Some people claim to be allergic to synthetic products, so they specifically seek out the "all natural" labels. Are sellers abusing the term? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it meaningless, it just makes the people behind it crooks.

At least, that's how I interpret it.

Well, the problem is "natural" isn't protected by the FDA, so you can put in on pretty much everything you please.
Including soap (IMO not a natural product to begin with, as it does not occur naturally, nor are the all of the ingredients natural) with fragrance oils.
Natural does not mean there are no synthetics in the product.
To me it really means nothing and I totally avoid this term.
I aim for the best product, not the most natural and both things do not always go together...


Certified Organic is a whole different story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification

 

[carebear]

All natural simply refers to things of nature; not synthetic,

Oh ok, like that stuff pumped out of the ground that is composed of organic material (organic as in plant material, animal material, carbon based; not organic as in "no pesticides) that has had time to decomposed. Yanno, oil. Made of dead dinosaurs and plants...

I'm all for healthy, close to the earth kinda stuff. That's why I make my own. But I have yet to read a meaningful definition of "natural".

 

[xyxoxy]

Palm oil COULD possibly be considered a "natural" product... but what about once it has been refined, bleached, and deodorized? Is it still natural? I know some people use the less processed red palm oil in soap but I think they are in the minority.

And if you combine your palm oil with another "natural" product like olive oil - well that would never happen in nature so do we still have an "all natural" product? Or just somewhat natural ingredients?

And even if you were to use wood ashes and rain water to make your own lye and can argue that is a natural ingredient... once you force those oils through saponification do you still have a natural product?

I don't know these answers and anyone who says they do is merely expressing an opinion. And in MY opinion - that has no place on a label giving the impression of being a fact.

I would much prefer to make good soap and take the time to explain what makes it so good.

 

[TessC]

One of the things that really annoys me about the "all natural" labeling is that a lot of people seem to have the notion that natural means pure, gentle, safe, harmless, etc. while something that's synthetic is somehow inferior or scary. There are plenty of things in nature that give me the screaming heebie jeebies and, on the flip side, plenty of synthetics that I feel 100% safe using. *shrug* I really, really dislike greenwashing and a lot of the "100% natural" advertising strikes me as exactly that.

 

[phpworm]

Take Japan for example, a country obsessed with cleanliness and hot spring onsens, they are all about the "all natural" label, not so much the "organic" one. One store over there that's really popular for all natural products is called House of Rose - http://houseofrose.co.jp/

You want the proper definition of natural, there it is.

 

[American Valkyrie]

My pet peeve is when people say, "It's all natural, so it's safe!" Hmmm... ephedra, foxglove, ricin, nightshade, rattlesnakes, pretty little mushrooms...

 

[carebear]

I know! Amazing isn't it???