Preservatives?

[pnewelljr]

I am working to put together my first liquid bodywash. My main goal is to make it in small fresh batches and not include any preservatives or antioxidants. I have read a couple places that liquid soap probably doesnt need preservatives because of the ph level.

This is confusing to me, because I read that anything with water needs preservatives. But lets say it doesnt, how far does that extend? I assume I can add more oils and essential oils without worry and still no preservatives, but what about other ingredients?

For example, the following sample recipe, would the ph rule still apply after all these things are mixed? Could I still get away without a preservative?

saponified oils of organic coconut
organic safflower oil
organic olive oil
organic aloe vera leaf powder (or juice?)
organic essential oils
organic vegetable glycerin
organic guar gum

Would this be ok?

 

[lsg]

I think the aloe juice would need a preservative. I use Germall Plus Liquid in many of my products.

 

[pnewelljr]

That's whats so confusing to me? If the liquid soap already has water in it, why does the water in the aloe juice cause a problem?

If I used powder instead of juice, wouldn't it effectively just mix with the water in the liquid soap and create the same problem?

 

[lsg]

I am one of those who think that liquid soap needs a preservative and you are adding a plant substance to the soap making it doubly susceptible to mold and bacteria.

 

[DeeAnna]

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659

 

[PinkCupcake]

Mold & bacteria need water to grow. Personally, I would use a preservative in any product that contains water. I know that people don't like the word "preservative", but they don't like mold, either.

 

[new12soap]

Yes, it is because you are adding botanicals which make yummy microbe food. Many people think "natural = good", but mold, fungus, and bacteria are all natural and those are bad (in our products anyway).

Please use a preservative. I second Liquid Germall Plus, it is not pH sensitive and isn't inactivated by other ingredients, but there are a lot of choices out there.

 

[pnewelljr]

Ok, I did some research. Although I'm not happy about it, the only preservatives I"ve found that I'm remotely comfortable with are the following three:

Water Soluble
Leucidal Liquid SF
Leucidal Liquid PT

Oil Soluble
PhytoCide Elderberry OS

My question now is, if I decide to use these, which one would I use? My product would have both oil and water?

 

[new12soap]

Leucidal SF is used at pH between 3-8 and is most effective below 6.

Same with Leucidal PT

And same w PhytoCide when using in products that contain water.

So it doesn't look like any of those would be appropriate.

 

[pnewelljr]

Leucidal SF is used at pH between 3-8 and is most effective below 6.

Same with Leucidal PT

And same w PhytoCide when using in products that contain water.

So it doesn't look like any of those would be appropriate.

Are there no natural safe preservatives that would work then?

 

[pnewelljr]

And how can a products like these have no preservatives?

http://www.hanaorganicskincare.com/products/gentle-cleanser

http://www.hanaorganicskincare.com/collections/face/products/gentle-toner

Are they just lying?

 

[lsg]

My guess is that the rose hydrosol and Castile soap already contained preservatives. The company might not have added any extra preservatives, but I think those two ingredients probably contained preservatives.

 

[DeeAnna]

Even if OTHERS are not using preservatives in their products or are lying about their use of preservatives, the fact remains that what THEY do or don't do should not make a difference. What is the right level of risk for YOU based on the objective facts and informed recommendations?

If you're making this product for yourself, then don't use a preservative if you are resistant to the idea. If you are making this for the public or even for family and friends, however, it's wise to be much more conservative, because you cannot control how these people will use your product. I think Lindy's thread -- the one I gave a link to earlier -- is instructive and well worth heeding.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That thread was a good read, I remember it first time round.

I am also of the mind that a little bit of an "unnatural" preservative is better than asking some one if they want to smear dangerous bacteria all over their face. I have my bottle ready for when I make some lotion.

 

[pnewelljr]

I'll be using it for myself, at least initially. If I were to not use any preservatives, what PH should I be shooting for to limit the risk of bacterial growth?

 

[pnewelljr]

Also, any opinions on Willow Bark Extract?

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/willow-bark-extract.html

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Even the text on the site seems to suggest that it works for removing nasties in use, but not the best as a preservative.

 

[seven]

I think the aloe juice would need a preservative. I use Germall Plus Liquid in many of my products.

i 2nd this. am using this one as well, and so far i've no complaints.

 

[new12soap]

Are there no natural safe preservatives that would work then?

Well, it depends on your definition of natural and safe. There are a few ecocert preservatives (like the ones you mentioned), but they are designed for use in cosmetics such as lotions. As for how effective they are, I really can't say as I haven't used them. I know there have been a lot of problems with some of the more "natural" preservatives because they simply do not hold up with any reliability.

I really think that "preservatives" is such a broad category, and they have all gotten a really bad rap lately. Much of it is IMO unfair and undeserved, there are fear-mongers and half-truths being manipulated all over the internet.

I'm not saying you shouldn't seek out a preservative that meets your preferences and your needs, but I would ask what IS it that you are looking for? What exactly do YOU consider natural or safe? What is your objection to traditional preservatives such as Liquid Germall Plus? You may want to do some more research into the safety (or legitimate concerns) of such products, it may help allay some of whatever concerns you have.

As for another eco-cert preservative, I'm sorry I don't have any better suggestions for you. I don't use them as I find that LGP meets my needs very well. Look for one that works in the higher pH environment of soap. You cannot balance your soap to any pH that will preclude contamination and still be safe for you to use.

HTH

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

To put it in to a context, I was reading an article about storing food and so on for emergencies (don't ask!) and it said to put some plain bleach in to stored drinking water. A very small amount, mind you. Now of course drinking bleach is not something that people would think of doing, but a little bit so diluted is not an issue and actually keeps the water safe to drink.

A small amount of a reputable preservative will do very little harm to the majority of people. People don't think this, though, as it's not natural and so on and so on.