Preservatives?

[Lindy]

Having just gone through a disaster with cream soap I am now going to recommend preservatives in liquid soap. As has already been stated the aloe will cause a problem all by itself without a good preservative. If you're looking for natural preservatives you are better looking at are ECOcert preservatives like Geoguard.

 

[lsg]

I just want to add this, after reading today's swiftcraftymonkey blog. Just because something is called natural doesn't mean it is good for your skin and just because something is referred to as a chemical, doesn't necessarily make it bad.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/

 

[ilovesoap2]

^^^^
I really should live on her blog. So interesting! So much to learn.

 

[lady-of-4]

LS generally doesn't need a preservative, because of it's alkaline enviroment not being conducive to microbial growth. BUT if you still choose to use one, please make sure that it will actually work in an alkaline environment. Most preservatives that i find soapers use for LS are not effective in a pH over 9. The following is a link to a list of 27 different preservatives and there actual ph range of effectiveness.

http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/


And if your testing your pH and it falls below 9, something is off, especially if you're using strips. Soap is generally mid range alkaline, and is skin safe between 9 and 10. Below 9, and your soap will fall out of solution, ie, cloud and begin to break down/separate. Above 10, and it's not skin safe. Cellular breakdown can occur above 10, and you won't even notice it. I know of one person who gets her soap at 8.5 with no issues, and she uses a meter to test. So I can't question too much there. But she's the only one I know of in other groups I'm in. But ph testing accuracy is a whole nother ball park, and not what you're asking for.

Now as for the preservatives in that list, some touch on the edge of working in soap, pH wise. They can go up to 9. My thought is, though that being that close to soap's minimum pH range, it could be debatable that they'd be effective, if you were to get your soap at 9..or even a smidge below. Nothing says that effectiveness is equal across the board. A preservative with a range of 5-9 might be less effective at it's low and high end ie, 5 and 9..but is best in between. Again, that's me with a theory though. Some food for thought if you will.
http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/

 

[Lindy]

Actually I need to respectfully disagree. I used to believe that with regards to both LS & Cream Soap until my cream soap got black mold. Now I know better.

 

[lady-of-4]

Actually I need to respectfully disagree. I used to believe that with regards to both LS & Cream Soap until my cream soap got black mold. Now I know better.

I remember your incident, Lindy and that really sucks it happened. But, considering you'd never had an issue prior to that, I think that was 1 isolated incident, that could happen, even to those who use a preservative. I think we all can agree that even a great preservative can fail. It happens. Does it mean it's a bad preservative overall, because of 1 incident? Not really. Now if it were a repeat issue, then I'd be looking into a new preservative, or in your case, begin preserving. But 1 isolated incident isn't something to disswade me easily. I did have a case where, more often than not, my home made conditioner would begin to go bad. Once or twice I could get it passed a month with no rancidity. Otherwise, mold, color change..whole 9 yards. So I sucked it up and got a preservative. As for my LS? Nope. Won't bother I'll let it take care of itself and not waste money.

In any case, as I stated, most commonly used preservatives are most certainly going to fail in LS because of the high pH. Examples, taken from the link I posted are, but not limited to, Liquid Germall, all versions of Optiphen and Germaben, and Phenonip. These are only effective in a pH under 8. The ones that go up to 9 seem to need a partner.... well, I think I made my point. Read the list. 27 different preservatives... and none of them will work in LS. So it boils down to the home crafter to take this info and make informed decisions.

 

[Lindy]

Hmm good point.

 

[Mellifera]

I've checked several brands of liquid soap--Dr. B. among them, and true liquid soap (not detergent) on the market never seems to use a preservative. I have a few bottles around that are 2 yrs old of my own LS and no problems with them, either. So I think liquid soap is ok, with good manufacturing practice. Can't speak to cream soap, since I've never made it.

 

[InNae]

The definition of natural is a sticky subject. The FDA has not issued any information on what "Natural" is. (Sorry I work in the food industry and this comes up all the time) With that being said there are some things that are being/have been developed. Here is a link to an article in Chemical and Engineering News (Magazine for the American Chemical Society) which talks about some "Natural" preservatives and there are some links to some other "Natural" things that can be used in food so I would think that they would be safe for use in soap. I couldn't find anything about the pH range for the antimicrobial so that would be a concern, and I'm not sure where it could be purchased. I'm pretty sure there aren't to many of us that want to purchase 50 pounds of this stuff to try it out.

http://cen.acs.org/articles/92/i6/Extending-Shelf-Life-Natural-Preservatives.html

InNae

 

[dixiedragon]

When people say "natural preservative" I immediately think of salt. Salted dried fish, jerky (which is basically salted dried meat), etc. I am curious if salt might work as a presevative in a body wash or liquid soap. Any info on this?

 

[Lindy]

Soap by its very nature is a salt hence Sodium. Of course liquid soap is Potassium but it really should be self-preserving. I've checked the rest of my cream soap that does not have preservatives and there is no mold. I also checked the one I had a problem with after having cleaned the mold off it (I kept it to see what it would do) and there is no reoccurrence. So quite frankly I am really, really torn on this.

 

[FGOriold]

With liquid and cream soap, it is not just a question of to preserve or not to preserve, it is also which preservative to use. Most all of the ones people used or recommend to use (optiphen in all variations, liquid germall, etc.) are effective on formulations with a ph <= 8 which these soap products are not and cannot be. There is only one preservative (unless you go with a system of preservatives and supportive agents to boost the preservative's power) that is available in the US for high Ph products - Suttocide A. So if you are gong to use a preservative, please research them and don't waste your money on one that will not be effective in your liquid or cream soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Salt alters the thickness and lather of liquid soap products. Might not be the best choice as a preservative.

 

[halogen171]

Your so right ... When I first started making liquid soap I looked everywhere for a preservative that would work in a high pH my liquid soaps are exactly 8.8 and everything is ineffective at a pH that high I feel it's good hygiene, proper sanitation, and prevention of exposure can prevent bacteria and mold growth but sometimes even with preservatives products go bad with time.....