Preservatives required in everything with water???

[angbaby4974]

Ok, seriously, liquid soap.....preservatives or NO?

I read this article, and although the formuation is not provided in the free read, it seems that the plain soap was fine in a challenge test....

http://www.sinpospq.org/2008/node/446

Anyone have any good data to the contrary for me?

I'm thinking it will be fine preservative free. Keep in mind the only liquid soap I've ever made was a horribly failed rebatch...but You're still making "soap". You add water to lye for bar soap & don't add preservatives, so why would you add preservatives when you add water to potassium hydroxide for liquid soap???

I could be totally off base with that, but I don't think I've ever read a recipe for liquid soap that called for a preservative.

 

[pink-north]

So using a preservative is just an extra safety pretty much right?

well, yes and no.

in a perfect world - yea. but we live in a world of dirty fingers so except in some anhydrous products where it's unlikely water would be introduced a preservative is really a necessity.

I wouldn't use a properly preserved moisturizer unless it's been produced in a sterile environment and packaged in a way to avoid contamination (they do exist, they are expensive, and your pharmacist can order them for you).

So let me see if I understand you properly. You do not use handmade lotions unless you can ensure they are made in a sterile environment. How does one make their lotion sterile?

 

[Deda]

So let me see if I understand you properly. You do not use handmade lotions unless you can ensure they are made in a sterile environment. How does one make their lotion sterile?

I use lots of Clorox. Rinse my containers, utensils, and all work surfaces. Wear gloves, and cover hair (sometimes). Boil and hold water at170 for a minimum of 20 mins.

 

[pink-north]

I use lots of Clorox. Rinse my containers, utensils, and all work surfaces. Wear gloves, and cover hair (sometimes). Boil and hold water at170 for a minimum of 20 mins.[/quote]

I tried that once and I ended up melting all my bottles. How do you handle that?

 

[Deda]

I dont boil my containers, I use a bleach rinse. Maybe you poured too hot?

 

[IrishLass]

How does one make their lotion sterile?

I think the word 'sterile' is really a misnomer unless the lotion was made and bottled in a sterile lab or a 'clean room' environment with Hazmat suits on.

I believe 'Sanitized' is actually a much better word for what homecrafters of lotion aim for- basically making sure all the lotionmaking equipment is as clean as one can possibly get it without having to mortgage the house on an autoclave or something. :wink:

From what I understand, sanitizing helps to give ones' lotion a good head start and a better chance at a longer shelf-life by putting a good, wolloping dent in the buggie colonies in order that ones' preservative system is not overwhelmed.

I'm just a small-time (and fairly brand new) lotionmaker who makes lotions only for my own personal use, but I sanitize all my lotionmaking equipment in a product called StarSan. It's a product that many homebrewers of beer and wine use to sanitize their equipment and containers with. I also sanitize my working area and wear gloves and all that.

My lotionmaking set-up mainly consists of 3 (sanitized) wide-mouthed canning jars. What I do is put my water phase in one jar, my oil phase in another jar, and some extra water in the third jar just in case I need to make up for any water loss later on. I cover all 3 tightly with foil and poke sanitised thermometers through the foil of the oil phase jar and the water phase jar. I then set all 3 jars in a simmering water bath (in a large pot) until the temp reaches 175 degreesF. Then I fiddle with the stove knob in order to hold it at that temp for 20 minutes before combining the oil and water phases together and blending with my sanitized stickblender.

When all is said and done, I transfer my lotion to a ZipLoc baggy, snip a small hole in the corner with sanitized scissors and squeeze it out into my clean lotion bottles.

I can't claim it's 100% sterile, but it's as spit-spot clean as I can possibly get it.

IrishLass

 

[rupertspal42]

Yeah completly sterile would be pretty hard to achieve! But I like Deda's method, i think i'm going to go that route for sterilizing my bottles.. but what about rubbing alcohol in lotions for a preservative? I've seen on the back of some lotions it says Isophoythl Alcohol (spelling) isn't that the same as rubbing alcohol? :?

 

[BeGreen]

Yeah completly sterile would be pretty hard to achieve! But I like Deda's method, i think i'm going to go that route for sterilizing my bottles.. but what about rubbing alcohol in lotions for a preservative?

Rubbing alcohol contains chemicals added so that it smells so terrible no one would be able to drink it. You probably do not want your lotion to smell like that, which is why it should never be used, not because it would not work.

Alcohol is regularly used in patient preoperative skin preparations but at a high volume; 60-95%. But you would not want a level that high in a cosmetic. Those preparations also smell like the denaturant since they are not designed to be a pleasant experience!

"Microbial growth is prevented in squeous systems containing 25% alcohol; however, lower levels of alcohol (5-10%) may have additive or synergistic antimicrobial action with other formula components."

Preservative-free and self-preserving cosmetics and drugs By Jon J. Kabara

BG

 

[cdc]

What about liquid soaps? Preservatives required?

 

[BeGreen]

What about liquid soaps? Preservatives required?

It completely depends on the formula. What is the pH? How much glycerin is in the formula? Does the formula have other ingredients such as essential oils that might make the formula self-preserving? Glycerin works to preserve products as do some essential oils.

 

[cdc]

What about liquid soaps? Preservatives required?

It completely depends on the formula. What is the pH? How much glycerin is in the formula? Does the formula have other ingredients such as essential oils that might make the formula self-preserving? Glycerin works to preserve products as do some essential oils.

Ok, it was my understanding that essential oils do not preserve, they just retard oxidation of oils. And, I didnt think there was that much variability in soap PH...it is all alkaline....

but this question applys to basic soap recipies. Oil, water, lye.

 

[BeGreen]

Ok, it was my understanding that essential oils do not preserve, they just retard oxidation of oils.

I think you might be confusing something like Vitamin oils with essential oils. Essential oils are the basis for quite a few preservatives.

BG

 

[cdc]

No, really, I have read many times that essential oils are not preservatives....someone with more credibility? Right? Confused?

 

[BeGreen]

No, really, I have read many times that essential oils are not preservatives....someone with more credibility? Right? Confused?

They in and of themselves are not preservatives, in the sense that you just add some to any formula and it will work to preserve it. But many do have the effect of preserving a formula which is why some preservatives are made from them, or contain them. Here's some for your research; look into Suprapein, Neopein, Biopein, Feniol, Naticide, Jeecide NAS-NPC, NAS-NPC CC, Linatural NLP, neem, tea tree...that should get you started.

Here is an article which certainly has the credibility you are asking for: Williams L.R., Home V, Asre S. (1990) Antimicrobial activity of oil of Melaleuca (Tea tree oil): It's potential use in cosmetics and toiletries. Cosmetics, Aerosols and Toiletries, Australia. 4 (4), pp. 12-13, 16-18,22.

BG

 

[cdc]

Great info, thank you!

 

[cdc]

PS, just reread my earlier post....I didnt mean to imply YOU had limited credibility, I was saying that I did!

Thanks for the help!

 

[Deda]

No, really, I have read many times that essential oils are not preservatives....someone with more credibility? Right? Confused?

They in and of themselves are not preservatives, in the sense that you just add some to any formula and it will work to preserve it. But many do have the effect of preserving a formula which is why some preservatives are made from them, or contain them. Here's some for your research; look into Suprapein, Neopein, Biopein, Feniol, Naticide, Jeecide NAS-NPC, NAS-NPC CC, Linatural NLP, neem, tea tree...that should get you started.

Here is an article which certainly has the credibility you are asking for: Williams L.R., Home V, Asre S. (1990) Antimicrobial activity of oil of Melaleuca (Tea tree oil): It's potential use in cosmetics and toiletries. Cosmetics, Aerosols and Toiletries, Australia. 4 (4), pp. 12-13, 16-18,22.

BG

Dear WaterWitch, I'm so sorry, I meant BeGreen, we have a strict NO TROLL policy here.

I believe admin already has already banned you once.

 

[cdc]

OOps, Im confused.

 

[cdc]

IC.

She was a meanie in the beginning of this post. Made me crazy.

I did research some of the products she listed, and the essential oil combos seem to be legit.

Tea Tree oil, on the other hand, is unreliable and you need SO MUCH of it to work, that your stuff would stink like TeaTree. Tea Tree does seem to have good uses in your products as anti-fungals, but as a preservative, not so much. Apparently, it takes %5 to be preservative. Yikes.

I might try some of the EO blends for my home stuff...but too pricey to sell it seems. Anyone use them? Seems to be cinnamon, rosemary and a few others....

 

[IrishLass]

It seems to me that WaterWitch, a member recently banned for inflammatory posting, has transformed herself into BeGreen and tried to sneak back in.

Admin can see IP addresses.

I was a-wondering if BeGreen was WaterWitch. Looks like my suspicions were correct.

IrishLass