Practice makes... perfect disasters!

[WeaversPort]

.... For a lack of a better word, Soy wax needs to be tempered when used in soap. I don’t do the whole heat, hold, and cool, but I do heat most of my oils to about 155F before adding some room temperature oil to cool it all back down. I soap at 125F-130, with only a whisk, in a SS pot. I watch the heat throughout the whole process and if it dips below 125, I put it back on the fire until the temp comes back up. I’ve tried soaping cooler and only heating my oils until the soy is just melted, but it almost always gives me stearic spots. By “tempering” the whole lot, I’ve avoided them....

That’s all I’ve got for now. So sorry for the long, rambling post, but I hope it helps.

I agree with emi, not rambling at all. I find this fascinating!

Do you find that with soy wax, you don't need to stick blend at all? Or that you wisk in the room temperature oils, making sure not to go below 125?

 

[emi]

Tempering is often done as a way to organize the fatty acids in a wax or butter, in order to keep them from separating out or getting grainy later - especially if exposed to warmth and heat. You find it done regularly in chocolate, so that you don't get the white, waxy look of various fats melting at different temperatures and creating separation.

The general practice is to heat something up to melt it, hold it at that temperature, and then rapidly cool it.

The hold provides two functions: 1) to give the butter or wax time to "organize", and 2) time to disinfect/sterilize the mixture in case of possible contamination in equipment or materials. In soap, holding isn't as important as when making other cosmetics. The assumption is that the highly caustic nature of the lye and the saponifying process addresses the concerns of contamination... Though I'd still avoid spitting in it or something

Ah i see now. I absolutely know tempering chocolate. Thanks for the clarification! I've never paid attn to temperature after combining the oils with lye. I'll give that a try!

 

[earlene]

I’m arriving to the party late so I’m going to try not to repeat what others have said.

I.Love.SoyWax!

It you’re interested in trying it, make sure you buy the right stuff. It should have an INCI name of Hydrogenated Soybean Oil. Many of the soy-based waxes are meant for candles and contain other proprietary ingredients that you don’t want in BB products. Look for Golden Foods 415 soy wax.

A few observations I’ve made about soy wax:

1. It is possible to make a good all-veggie bar. It took me a long time to get there, but I love my bars. I’d put them up against animal-fat bars any day. I used to use refined shea butter at 65% and I never experienced the lack of lather that others report. It makes a beautiful soap, but when I started selling, I needed to find a cheaper option.

4. I found that a low SF is the way to go. In my experience, soy wax seems to take FOREVER to saponify. Too high of a SF and too much of the soy remains in the bar as fat and that does leave an almost-unpleasant-coating on the skin.

6. Soy wax makes an unbelievably white bar—without TD. I usually keep about 75% of my batter uncolored to highlight the white.

Saranac, thank you for your detailed observations about your experience using soy wax successfully in soap. You have got me interested in trying it out myself.

I have a few questions.

Regarding low SF, what do you recommend? I already tend to keep my SF at about 2 or 3% most of the time. Should it be lower or would you say that's about right?

Another question is about DOS. I found that using liquid soy in soap results in a rather DOS prone soap, so wonder if soy wax is less so, or is there still a concern? And how long does it take you to go through a 50 pound order? Or in other words, how long does it last before it goes off?

Are you able to do intricate swirls, or does it cool down too fast for that? I don't think that would stop me from trying out soy wax, but I am wondering about swirling. Or would you recommend keeping the batter warm (as you mention for avoiding stearic spots) while doing separate layers of color, perhaps. But in terms of swirls with several colors, is it feasible or too difficult to avoid stearic spots because of cool-down?

How long do you generally keep your soap in the mold before you can unmold and cut when using soy wax?

Does a high soy wax formula do better with gel or do you prefer to avoid gel and why? If gel is desired, in order to achieve gel, do you find CPOP useful or in other ways need to encourage gel?

One other question. What do you find to be your best cure time with your formula? I tend to prefer a nice long cure time, so even when people say 4-6 weeks, I usually give it longer. I just generally find that months rather than weeks seems to really improve the qualities of soap.


I hope you don't mind all these questions. But I am very interested in trying it out and would love to know a bit more on the subject. Thanks.

 

[WeaversPort]

Ah i see now. I absolutely know tempering chocolate. Thanks for the clarification! I've never paid attn to temperature after combining the oils with lye. I'll give that a try!

In that case, it's the same principle

From what I'm reading into Saranac's comment, the heat happens with the soy wax at 155F so the fatty acids can organize their crystalline structure. The "rapid cooling" comes from adding the room temperature oils - ensuring the mixture doesn't go below 125F (where soy wax might start to solidify again). It looks like the 135-125F range is where the lye is added; the lye takes over the rest of the process and no more outside heat is needed. I imagine soaping at 135-125F range, you don't need to do much but insulate to ensure gel.

Of course this is what I'm taking from reading, I hope Saranac corrects me if I'm wrong! Like earlene I'm now absolutely curious to try soy wax myself!! I'm going to have to get some to play with!

 

[Saranac]

. . . the 2nd was the same except I used 46% soy wax instead of cocoa butter with the same proportions. SF at 7% for both. I made them both about a week ago so I need to wait on the cure. But just from cutting them I noticed the cocoa butter one was very brittle and "waxy". The soy wax one was still hard, but softer than the cocoa butter one. From what you said, maybe I'm going to have to lower my SF on the soy wax bar.

It's been about 10 years since I used cocoa butter in soap, so I have no comment about that. What I will say is that my soy-wax soap tends to start out a little softer, but it hardens up nicely by week 4. I think you're seeing the same results as I do. With 20% coconut oil, I personally like a 4% SF. I also test the purity of my NaOH, so my 4% is closer than what comes out of SoapCalc. With my initial test batches, that I made side-by-side with a lard batch, I soaped with a 5% SF (not adjusted for purity), and I found the soy soap left a "waxy" film that the lard did not. I almost gave up with that first batch, but after having an epiphany while washing hydrogenated-soy-shortening-based buttercream out of a bowl at work, I decided to try a lower SF (I used to work as a baker, and it was very scary how much shortening was left behind, even with large amounts of VERY hot water and Dawn detergent). The lower SF did the trick!

I don't use soy wax as a 1-1 replacement of lard, tallow, palm, shea (or in your case cocoa butter). My "Veggie Lard" is a blend of 40% Soy Wax, 60% HO Sunflower; I use this as a 1-1 replacement for animal fats. For your cocoa butter replacement, I probably would have done a blend of 60% Soy wax, and 40% soft wax (to come close to the correct FA profile). The following is a recipe that I think looks closer to your 46% cocoa butter batch:

28% Soy Wax
46*.6 = 27.6
52% Liquid Oil
46*.4 = 18.4
18.4+34 = 52.4
20% Coconut

(I’ve never used Rice Bran, but it looks high in linoleic and linolenic acids. . . . I’d probably go for a mix of Rice Bran and HO sunflower instead of straight RB.)

I'm also concerned about the type of soy wax I bought. I'm pretty sure it's the type used mainly for candles based on the questions asked about it on amazon. It came in a bag of flakes. It's a 3 lb bag and it literally only says "Akosoy Natural Soy Wax" on it. It says on the site it's "natural 415 soy wax" with "no additives" but I have a feeling it's not the kind you're advising to get.

Sounds like the right stuff! Somewhere (CandleScience.com, maybe?) it was stated that Golden Foods 415 was now labeled as Akosoy. In fact, the last case I bought from Natures Garden was labeled as Akosoy.

Is there anything in particular I should look out for in the cured product? Also, what do you mean by "tempering" the oils? Just to keep the temp above 125 at all times? Or the process of heating the oils to 155 then cooling it down? I probably reached at least 130 or so when I melted my oils. I cooled it to about 96 and my lye water was at about 92 when I combined them

Nothing comes to mind as far as cure, and I find my soaps are good to go at 4 weeks. I recently bumped the Soy Wax to 35% and the lather is so creamy!
As for tempering, WeaversPort covered it nicely. I picked 155F (~70C) as that is what I saw for shea and I thought, why not? My procedure is pretty simple:

1. Make your lye solution and set aside.
2. Heat 75% of our oils to 155F (~70C), stirring occasionally. Remove from the heat.
3. Add the remaining 25% of your oils and stir. For my recipe, and my kitchen, this is enough to drop the temperature to about 135F. Let it cool to about 125.
4. I mix the lye solution and oils at about 125F and I try to keep my temp in that range. If you stick blend, you probably will reach trace before the batter cools too far. I only use a whisk and occasionally have to place the soap pot back on the fire to warm it back up. My experience is that trace comes quickly with a SB—too quickly for my nerves. I prefer to take things slowly with a whisk. Besides, the SB always gives me bubbles—no matter how many times I burp it.

I’ve tried soaping cooler but I often ended up with stearic spots. Natures Garden says that for candle making, the soy wax will be slushy at 110F, so I would definitely soap hotter than that! Maybe 115-120, but everything is working so well for me that I don’t see any reason to change!

 

[Saranac]

From what I'm reading into Saranac's comment, the heat happens with the soy wax at 155F so the fatty acids can organize their crystalline structure. The "rapid cooling" comes from adding the room temperature oils - ensuring the mixture doesn't go below 125F (where soy wax might start to solidify again). It looks like the 135-125F range is where the lye is added; the lye takes over the rest of the process and no more outside heat is needed. I imagine soaping at 135-125F range, you don't need to do much but insulate to ensure gel.

Awesome summary!
I do insulate, and I keep the towel-wrapped mold in a warm oven. Even today, it's cold in the mountains--I don't like to take chances with a partial gel!

Do you find that with soy wax, you don't need to stick blend at all? Or that you wisk in the room temperature oils, making sure not to go below 125?

I gave up in using my SB. It speeds things up too much for me and bubbles in the bars bother me. I whisk from start to finish.

 

[Saranac]

Regarding low SF, what do you recommend? I already tend to keep my SF at about 2 or 3% most of the time. Should it be lower or would you say that's about right?

I use 20% coconut and I SF at 4% (I test my lye for purity and compensate for that). My main concern is that because of the high melting point of Soy Wax, too much SF leaves a lot on the skin. And while hot water will clean up spilled wax, it needs to be very hot--too hot for skin.

Another question is about DOS. I found that using liquid soy in soap results in a rather DOS prone soap, so wonder if soy wax is less so, or is there still a concern? And how long does it take you to go through a 50 pound order? Or in other words, how long does it last before it goes off?

I've been using Soy wax exclusively for over 2 years and I've never had a case of DOS. The case says to use in 1 year from manufacture, but I portion it out into gallon zip lock bags and freeze it. I do sell so I go through it pretty fast.

Are you able to do intricate swirls, or does it cool down too fast for that? I don't think that would stop me from trying out soy wax, but I am wondering about swirling. Or would you recommend keeping the batter warm (as you mention for avoiding stearic spots) while doing separate layers of color, perhaps. But in terms of swirls with several colors, is it feasible or too difficult to avoid stearic spots because of cool-down?

I generally only use 2 colors per bar and I have no problem swirling. I stick to a simple ITP swirl or a drop swirl, so I don't know how intricate you can go. I think that as longs as you keep the batter warm enough that the soy doesn't solidify, and only mix to emulsion, you would be okay.

How long do you generally keep your soap in the mold before you can unmold and cut when using soy wax? Does a high soy wax formula do better with gel or do you prefer to avoid gel and why? If gel is desired, in order to achieve gel, do you find CPOP useful or in other ways need to encourage gel?

20-24 hours. I insulate and it's still warm-ish when I cut, but fully saponified. I always gel. I'm impatient and want to get things out of the mold as soon as possible. I've never not-gelled, so I don't know how the two would differ. I wrap my mold with a towel and put it into a 170F oven. I turn off the oven, but every couple of hours I warm the oven back up with the "proofing" setting.

One other question. What do you find to be your best cure time with your formula? I tend to prefer a nice long cure time, so even when people say 4-6 weeks, I usually give it longer. I just generally find that months rather than weeks seems to really improve the qualities of soap.

I shoot for 6 weeks, but in a pinch, 4 is pretty nice, too.

 

[emi]

It's been about 10 years since I used cocoa butter in soap, so I have no comment about that. What I will say is that my soy-wax soap tends to start out a little softer, but it hardens up nicely by week 4. I think you're seeing the same results as I do. With 20% coconut oil, I personally like a 4% SF. I also test the purity of my NaOH, so my 4% is closer than what comes out of SoapCalc. With my initial test batches, that I made side-by-side with a lard batch, I soaped with a 5% SF (not adjusted for purity), and I found the soy soap left a "waxy" film that the lard did not. I almost gave up with that first batch, but after having an epiphany while washing hydrogenated-soy-shortening-based buttercream out of a bowl at work, I decided to try a lower SF (I used to work as a baker, and it was very scary how much shortening was left behind, even with large amounts of VERY hot water and Dawn detergent). The lower SF did the trick!

I don't use soy wax as a 1-1 replacement of lard, tallow, palm, shea (or in your case cocoa butter). My "Veggie Lard" is a blend of 40% Soy Wax, 60% HO Sunflower; I use this as a 1-1 replacement for animal fats. For your cocoa butter replacement, I probably would have done a blend of 60% Soy wax, and 40% soft wax (to come close to the correct FA profile). The following is a recipe that I think looks closer to your 46% cocoa butter batch:

28% Soy Wax
46*.6 = 27.6
52% Liquid Oil
46*.4 = 18.4
18.4+34 = 52.4
20% Coconut

(I’ve never used Rice Bran, but it looks high in linoleic and linolenic acids. . . . I’d probably go for a mix of Rice Bran and HO sunflower instead of straight RB.)

Thank you so so much for your reply! as well as to the other persons' questions! I can't tell you how helpful this is for me. I think I'm literally going to print out your reply for my soap notebook. Just from cutting the bars, I could tell the 46% cocoa butter one is probably not going to turn out that well. It was just so incredibly brittle and waxy in not even 48 hours. But as promising as the soy wax seemed, I also felt that I can't just sub out animal fats for all soy wax. I was just thinking of what my next batch should be, unable to wait a whole month for my last batches to cure! I'm going to try the proportions you gave with a 4% SF, and more importantly the tempering process with the temperatures. And when you said,

" I also test the purity of my NaOH, so my 4% is closer than what comes out of SoapCalc."

you meant closer to 3% right? or even 2%, since your NaOH is more pure your SF is probably lower than the 4% soapcalc said is what you meant right? So maybe I should even SF at 3%? And for the 52% of soft oils, should I do the rice bran and HO suflower or should I get olive oil for it all? What soft oils would you recommend and why? I see now why you suggested HO sunflower. Soywax has no oleic and coconut is low. And RB has none! So olive oil which was what I was subbing to begin with has high oleic. So HO sunflower! It's all starting to make sense! So should I shoot for the profiles of olive oil? What number do you think is a good for oleic? Are there any other specific fatty acids you look out for when formulating recipes? i love this link a fellow soaper sent me:
http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmaking/
The original recipe I was looking at was using olive oil. Should I shoot for the same fatty acid profiles as if using 52% olive? If so 27% of HO Sunflower and 25% RB comes pretty close. HO Sunflower and Avocado gets pretty close olive numbers too. btw, I have nothing against olive. I just didn't have any and was impatient. I can absolutely just go out and get some! Thank you again for all the generous information!

 

[Saranac]

I stopped using olive oils because of all the news about it being adulterated; I don't like not knowing what all is in it. As a result, I like HO sunflower, but a lot of people use (cheaper) olive oil without batting an eye. For me it's less about whether it works or not, but rather not knowing what exactly it is. Just a personal hang-up of mine. As for Rice Bran--it has such a high amount of Linoleic/Linolenic that's I'd probably limit it to no more than 30% (depending on what else you use).

When I use SoapCalc, it's to analyze the FA profiles of an oil or a recipe. I calculate my NaOH for each batch by using a spreadsheet and the SAP values provided by my various suppliers. There are so many variables that go into calculating the caustic for a formula that you can go crazy trying to make things perfect. Plus, add in the fact that we're all different, and the variable's are limitless. My advice--pick a value, give it a good cure, and adjust from there. But if you were to twist my arm, I'd say start with a 2-4% SF on SoapCalc and see how you like it.

 

[emi]

I stopped using olive oils because of all the news about it being adulterated; I don't like not knowing what all is in it. As a result, I like HO sunflower, but a lot of people use (cheaper) olive oil without batting an eye. For me it's less about whether it works or not, but rather not knowing what exactly it is. Just a personal hang-up of mine. As for Rice Bran--it has such a high amount of Linoleic/Linolenic that's I'd probably limit it to no more than 30% (depending on what else you use).

Oh wow I had no idea! I just read a bunch of articles on the subject and wish I could say I am shocked. One of those articles said, olive oil is one of the most adulterated foods because of its relatively low production and higher prices compared to other oils. It makes sense that this kind of thing would happen I suppose. One source said 69% of olive oil in the US has been doctored! There were some links I found that offered where one can buy legitimate olive oil. I totally understand now why you stay away from it completely though. Because especially with soaping, it's not just a matter of taste or being scammed. This kind of thing would mess up our lye and fatty acid calculations, and especially for people who sell their soaps they would possibly be misinformed of the make up of their products! Thanks so much for telling me about this. I actually found a pretty close fatty acid profiles using combinations of RB, Sunflower, as well as Avocado so I'll just stick to that. Any other adulterated oils I should know about??

 

[emi]

I
When I use SoapCalc, it's to analyze the FA profiles of an oil or a recipe. I calculate my NaOH for each batch by using a spreadsheet and the SAP values provided by my various suppliers. There are so many variables that go into calculating the caustic for a formula that you can go crazy trying to make things perfect. Plus, add in the fact that we're all different, and the variable's are limitless. My advice--pick a value, give it a good cure, and adjust from there. But if you were to twist my arm, I'd say start with a 2-4% SF on SoapCalc and see how you like it.

So this is the recipe and procedure I'm going to try. Let me know if you have any thoughts on it.

Soywax 28%
Coconut 20%
HO Sunflower 22%
Avocado 30%

SF 3%

I actually crunched the numbers on soapcalc and 22% HO Sunflower + 30% Avocado came super close to the numbers of when I put in 52% OO. That's how I came up with those numbers. Is that ok?

So for the temps. I'm supposed to heat my soywax until it reaches 155. Then how long do I keep it at that temp? Then I add the other oils to bring it down to 125 which is where I combine the lye solution. And from what I understand the lye solution is also supposed to be at 125 when combining with the oils. I'm going to use a whisk like you too. And I need to keep it at 125 while I'm mixing. Do you have any recommendation for lye concentration? I've been doing my batches at 35%. Does it matter? I'm not going to do any swirling or anything. I might add just one color and an EO at trace. Then pour into my mold, wrap it in a towel and put it in a 170 oven and turn it off. I've never done the oven. I noticed you said you turn it off then on again every couple hours. How long do you keep that up for? I'm going to be working with 500g of oils if that matters. In one of those nice thick silicone cube mold from B&B. (3.5"x 4"x 3.75") I usually end up with a bit extra batter that's not even enough to fill up a single bar mold. But because that little half bar cools down really fast, I was able to see and learn the difference between gelled and not gelled from the same batter. So after the oven, wait a day or so, cut it, then try my hardest to wait on a 6 week cure!

I have used Castor oil in several of my previous batches just from reading that it gives good lather and bubbles. Is that something I should use or not necessary?

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[WeaversPort]

So this is the recipe and procedure I'm going to try. Let me know if you have any thoughts on it.

Soywax 28%
Coconut 20%
HO Sunflower 22%
Avocado 30%

SF 3%

I'm not going to do any swirling or anything. I might add just one color and an EO at trace. Then pour into my mold, wrap it in a towel and put it in a 170 oven and turn it off. I've never done the oven. I noticed you said you turn it off then on again every couple hours. How long do you keep that up for?

I can't answer the other questions, but I have thoughts on these ones:

For your first batch I'd recommend leaving fragrance and color out. I found it useful to have one successful batch with full water "as is". Then I had something to compare it with as I experimented with other changes.

With my benchmark as a guide I could tweak from there: see how fast it moved, what color it came out as, see the cure and lathering with my hard water, etc. Once that was down, I started using additives, colors, and fragrances. Then if something blew up on me I could get help pinning it down to one change at a time.

For oven finishing, heat your oven as low as it goes (generally modern ovens go to 170F). Wrap or cover the soap and put it in for at least an hour. Check on it occasionally to make sure it hasn't volcanoed. Then leave it there for 24 hours if possible. Occasionally turn the oven back on to 170F throughout the 24 hours to ensure gelling.

While many use towels in oven processing, I have a gas oven and it just makes me nervous. After my lessons with metal cutting, and setting myself on fire because of frayed pants, I stick to cling wrap or a silicone baking tray liner to cover and help insulate the soap.

Yes I know there's a huge difference between a torch and an oven, but we all have our quirks...

 

[Saranac]

So this is the recipe and procedure I'm going to try. Let me know if you have any thoughts on it.

Soywax 28%
Coconut 20%
HO Sunflower 22%
Avocado 30%

SF 3%

I actually crunched the numbers on soapcalc and 22% HO Sunflower + 30% Avocado came super close to the numbers of when I put in 52% OO. That's how I came up with those numbers. Is that ok?

So for the temps. I'm supposed to heat my soywax until it reaches 155. Then how long do I keep it at that temp? Then I add the other oils to bring it down to 125 which is where I combine the lye solution. And from what I understand the lye solution is also supposed to be at 125 when combining with the oils. I'm going to use a whisk like you too. And I need to keep it at 125 while I'm mixing. Do you have any recommendation for lye concentration? I've been doing my batches at 35%. Does it matter? I'm not going to do any swirling or anything. I might add just one color and an EO at trace. Then pour into my mold, wrap it in a towel and put it in a 170 oven and turn it off. I've never done the oven. I noticed you said you turn it off then on again every couple hours. How long do you keep that up for? I'm going to be working with 500g of oils if that matters. In one of those nice thick silicone cube mold from B&B. (3.5"x 4"x 3.75") I usually end up with a bit extra batter that's not even enough to fill up a single bar mold. But because that little half bar cools down really fast, I was able to see and learn the difference between gelled and not gelled from the same batter. So after the oven, wait a day or so, cut it, then try my hardest to wait on a 6 week cure!

I have used Castor oil in several of my previous batches just from reading that it gives good lather and bubbles. Is that something I should use or not necessary?

Thanks again for all your help!!

I think your formula looks great! I use castor, but if you don't have it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you've got it on hand, 5% will be nice and will help speed trace.

Your procedure looks good, too. I don't keep the temp at 155F for any length of time. Generally, when tempering butters, you keep the temp steady for (I think) 20 minutes, but that is only necessary if you plan to re-solidify the fat for later use. Our goal is simply to make sure that the soy wax is 100% melted. So warm your coconut, soy, and about 1/2 of your liquid oils to 155F, add your reserved room-temperature oils to cool it down, and let it cool the rest of the way to 125F on it's own (shouldn't take long).

I soap with a 35% lye concentration and have time to do a quick 2-color swirl. I'd suggest forgoing that until you get a sense of how quickly the batch comes together. I'd also suggest diluting your EO with a small amount of your liquid oils--it'll help it incorporate better. With a whisk, it takes me about 30 minutes from the time I add the lye water to the time the soap is in the mold. If you have great stick-blending skills, you might start off with a few pulses to bring your batter to emulsion before switching to a whisk. No matter what I do, I ALWAYS get bubbles so I leave the blender in the cupboard--unless I'm feeling impatient. . . .

I live in the mountains and it's pretty cool here most days, and I feel better knowing that my oven isn't stone cold. About every 2 hours or so, I warm the oven with the bread-proofing setting (about 100-110F). I usually make soap in the early afternoon and keep this up until bedtime. It's probably completely unnecessary, but it makes me feel better. I then cut about 20-24 hours from molding and the soap is always warm to touch. I do all my planing and beveling within 1-2 days.

 

[WeaversPort]

I live in the mountains and it's pretty cool here most days, and I feel better knowing that my oven isn't stone cold. About every 2 hours or so, I warm the oven with the bread-proofing setting (about 100-110F). I usually make soap in the early afternoon and keep this up until bedtime. It's probably completely unnecessary, but it makes me feel better. I then cut about 20-24 hours from molding and the soap is always warm to touch. I do all my planing and beveling within 1-2 days.

Ooohhh, you are lucky to have this oven setting!! Mine doesn't go any lower or have nice settings like this.

 

[emi]

5. For a lack of a better word, Soy wax needs to be tempered when used in soap. I don’t do the whole heat, hold, and cool, but I do heat most of my oils to about 155F before adding some room temperature oil to cool it all back down. I soap at 125F-130, with only a whisk, in a SS pot. I watch the heat throughout the whole process and if it dips below 125, I put it back on the fire until the temp comes back up. I’ve tried soaping cooler and only heating my oils until the soy is just melted, but it almost always gives me stearic spots. By “tempering” the whole lot, I’ve avoided them.

I just made my soap and it's in a turned off 170 degree oven. I added 5% of castor like you suggested so I had to tweak some of the other oils. I tried to keep the same fatty acid profile so the best I could do was this:

soy wax 25%
castor 5%
coconut 20%
avocado 27%
HO Sunflower 23%
SF 3%
lye conc 35%


I guess I missed the part in your last post that said holding temp at 155 for my initial melting of soywax, coconut and half the soft oils was unnecessary unless I was going to reharden my waxes. So I waited for exactly 20 mins and held the temp at 155 by sticking it in the microwave for 12 seconds at some point to hold the temp. So after that I added the rest of my soft oils, the temp eventually came down to 125, and my ly solution was also at 125 which is when I combined them. I put on the timer for 30 mins and started mixing with my whisk and constantly checked the temp to make sure to keep it at 125. When it dropped below it, I put it in the mircrowave for 7 seconds just to get it back up a few degrees. I had a really hard time waiting those 30 mins! Especially the gloves and goggles was so uncomfortable. But i kept stirring constantly with my whisk. I don't think the thickness or color or look of it really ever changed during the whole time. At 28 mins I just got too impatient and got my stick blender out and blitzed it in short bursts. I kept doing that for quite a while, maybe a good 10-15 mins but the consistency was still very thin and I could still see that oil slick at the top which made me think it wasn't saponified properly. So I eventually started doing longer blitzes for maybe 3-4 seconds at a time, then finally just let the thing run for maybe 10 seconds. It just wouldn't get any thicker. I just left it along for a minute to see if it would thicken a bit, which it did. I did some more long blitzes and finally felt good enough that it was all saponified. It was thicker, that oil slick was gone, and the color got a bit lighter. (The coconut oil I had was already infused with annatto so my soap is orange.) I was so surprised though how long it took to trace. The last time I used soywax it was super fast trace. But that batch had a lot of cocoa butter and coconut oil in it. I know I've heard that coconut oil accelerates trace. I also only did 300g total oils, for a total soap of 456g. I had less avocado than I realized. Which is why I was more surprised how long the trace took. I was working witha very small batch, whisking the heck out of it non-stop for 30 mins with absolutely no change. Does that sound right to you? I know you mentioned in one of your posts that soywax takes a long time to saponify. I'll unmold it in a day or so when it's hard enough. Then the dreaded wait! Ugh! Thanks for helping me with the recipe. I can't wait to see my results!

 

[Saranac]

It made it to your mold so Congrats!

Just a few comments/ observations:
1. I don't use a microwave for my Soy Wax soap so I can't comment on that. I use a 2 quart stainless steel saucepan and if the temperature dips, I just put it back on the burner for a few seconds.
2. I wonder if the size of your batch contributed to the length of time before trace. . . . My batch size is 1040 g of oil, and with water, is just over 1500g--so 3 times your batch size. Whisks are great for creating emulsions, but if you can't get a substantial amount of the head in the batter, you're not going to accomplish much.
3. There's really no reason not to use a stick blender; I'm just not a fan. Besides, soapmaking is one of the only times I can tell the whole household to "go away and leave me alone," with out sounding like a [-----].
4. For some reason, Soy Wax takes FOREVER to trace. I don't know why that is, and I have my theories, but your experience seems to substantiate my claim.

I'm so glad you tried this out and can't wait to hear about (and see!) your results!

 

[meena.shah]

Hi , I would like to know does citric acid added in soy wax soap trace fast.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

@meena.shah New questions are better asked in new threads. Some context would be helpful as well.

 

[meena.shah]

@meena.shah New questions are better asked in new threads. Some context would be helpful as well.

Sorry I will do that