Palm Oil Controversy

[gemini]

Tanya,
that is great! I wish I could find one here that I could really be sure of. Im going to check out fair trade and I am waiting to hear from Mike from SC.
As for palm in food, I don't buy a lot of convenience type foods and I barely ever eat out. Make my own bread and pastries etc. You can't buy palm oil here as a cooking oil that I know of. I do read labels it takes forever to shop!
I was just reading someone else posting about palm oil in food and they were also saying it is really really bad for you to eat. I feel so sorry for the people in countries where that is their only cooking oil not only has the price for it skyrocketed beyond what they can afford, but they don't even have the option to choose a healthier oil. We are so lucky to live in a place where there are many many choices to make.

 

[carebear]

Like I said my source would have to prove to me that they obtained oil from eithical harvest.

what kind of proof would be adequate?

 

[gemini]

Probably some kind of fair trade or greenpeace endorsement that I could verify.

 

[kaseencook]

So for the oat flour could I just use the processor and grind regular oats up to a powder? I don't think I've ever seen oat flour here in the stores.

Yea a food processor would work great. I have a grain mill that I use for different flours. Yea, i don't think they have it in the store. Rolled oats are so delicate they can be bashed to death pretty easy

 

[welder]

Here ya go
http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/100/Uganda.html
This is one of the articles I found.
It all sounds very lovely until you get to the bottom of the page

"Large scale oil palm plantations (as well as in other monocultures) are typically related to violation of land rights and other human rights, since they take large areas of indigenous or peasant population’s lands leading to conflicts.

The government is trying to convince the residents of the islands to lease their land to the plantation and “make money” but there are reports of many family conflicts developing because of the project. After loosing their land, where will those people work? Presumably in the oil palm plantations, affected by the widespread use of agrochemicals in oil palm production, in temporary jobs, poorly paid, and in bad conditions as experience in other countries shows. What is certain is that the benefits won’t go for the people but for large enterprises -increasingly foreign- which control production, industrialization and commercialization of palm oil. "

Like I said my source would have to prove to me that they obtained oil from eithical harvest.

I knew that someone would be doing the palm thing greedilly, but I'm surprised to hear that a government is involved.

Yes, I agree, and verification of sustainable farming procedures should be demanded by every consumer!

 

[welder]

I didn't use palm oil in my soap and put up with unmoulding issues happily...well, not very happily :wink: ......until I found an Australian sustainably farmed palm oil supply. Still cannot find sustainable PKO - maybe one day.

Find out the manufacturers name. They should be crushing the kernels & expelling the oil along with the oil they get from the outer flesh too. If they aren't doing so, they're losing money...

 

[xyxoxy]

As an interesting twist on the subject, I've also just been reading articles about experiments and movements to redirect the massive amounts of waste created by the palm producers into a source for biomass fuel production. It's a nice theory and if it works it could not only provide more income for these countries, but it could result in less of a need for clearcutting new land and should also reduce greenhouse gases from the tons of leftover plant material that was burned or simply left to rot in the sun.

I have not given up the use of palm (yet) but if I knew I could get it from an Earth friendly source I would gladly pay a little more for it. I have been experimenting with babassu oil as a substitute for coconut (for those with allergies) and so far have had good results. It is a little more expensive but I'd bet it would not be too hard to build a decent recipe with it to eliminate palm.

 

[Tabitha]

Probably some kind of fair trade or greenpeace endorsement that I could verify.

Have you tried cutting to the chase & making contact w/ greenpeace & asking them if they have made an endorsement? Straight from the horses mouth might be a more direct route.

 

[welder]

As an interesting twist on the subject, I've also just been reading articles about experiments and movements to redirect the massive amounts of waste created by the palm producers into a source for biomass fuel production. It's a nice theory and if it works it could not only provide more income for these countries, but it could result in less of a need for clearcutting new land and should also reduce greenhouse gases from the tons of leftover plant material that was burned or simply left to rot in the sun.

***That's why I don't ever write off ANY energy technology. Even nuclear technology is fine IF we can deal with the waste. The best way of doing that is to pour more research investment into hot fusion until we can actually harness nuclear power without producing any radioactive waste at all. Sorry to make this to be about energy, I don't intend to derail this thread, it's just that all oil is energy (I prefer vegetable oil energy over petroleum oil energy though).***





I have not given up the use of palm (yet) but if I knew I could get it from an Earth friendly source I would gladly pay a little more for it. I have been experimenting with babassu oil as a substitute for coconut (for those with allergies) and so far have had good results. It is a little more expensive but I'd bet it would not be too hard to build a decent recipe with it to eliminate palm.

***Babassu is quite impressive to me. It yields even larger nut clusters than the generous Africal Palm.***

 

[Etelka]

I have been enjoying reading everyone's posts here and agree this is a multi-faceted topic with no single simple solution.

I didn't use palm oil in my soap and put up with unmoulding issues happily...well, not very happily :wink: ......until I found an Australian sustainably farmed palm oil supply. Still cannot find sustainable PKO - maybe one day.


Tanya (gets off soapbox now :wink: )

Tanya, do you mind sharing the brand of your palm oil, the only one I can find is made in Malaysia, and of course that one has all the bad headings attached to it. I'll understand if you don't want to
Etelka

 

[gemini]

Tabitha,
Yes I emailed greenpeace and I emailed the big US soap supplier and have not heard from either.

 

[outlaws33]

Check ciranda I know they have oils in bulk, but they normally sell to people that resell the oils.

 

[gemini]

thanks,
checked out their web page they look like the might have what I am looking for!

 

[LomondSoap]

I don't use palm either. I use shea or cocoa butter to harden my soap, works well for me. I donate to Borneo Orangutan Survival Uk and sponsor an orangutan from them. I don't think it's necessary to use palm oil, although in food it's sometimes hard to tell what product has palm oil in it since it's usually just listed as veg oil.

 

[gemini]

yep sneaky aren't they? Welp all the more reason to make it yourself if you can. Then you know what you are getting soap and food and anything else you can do by yourself. Upside to that is you usually save money and it's healthier.

 

[goodchroma]

palm oil suppliers

Thanks to gemini for bringing the palm oil suppliers into a discuss and thanks to beachgurl for the links to two suppliers that offer sustainable palm oil and one last thanks to Tanya who answered my inquiry and gave me the link to this thread. This forum is great, I'm learning a lot.

 

[booboo]

I dont use palm oil for the same reasons. yes its a pain when soooo many recipes have it in. I have very dry skin. Coconut here in Slovenia is very expensive.
I dont belive no matter what we do we cant change them tearing down forests etc etc
I do belive what each of us as humans matters. I have felt at times that it does not matter what I do the world will never change and why should I go without while others enjoy.
I feel if I and everybody who felt like that from time to time was to give up on there efforts, then there really would be no hope at all.
PS I have just watched my neighbour burn a acre of long grass. In amongest this grass was all kinds of wild life. When I asked why he said it was to much work to clear it. His wife smiled sweetly and said "now we will have nice new grass to look at"

These are highly educated middle class people.

 

[Tabitha]

That is terribly sad :cry: .

 

[honor435]

I have been enjoying reading everyone's posts here and agree this is a multi-faceted topic with no single simple solution.

I didn't use palm oil in my soap and put up with unmoulding issues happily...well, not very happily :wink: ......until I found an Australian sustainably farmed palm oil supply. Still cannot find sustainable PKO - maybe one day.


Tanya (gets off soapbox now :wink: )

Tanya, do you mind sharing the brand of your palm oil, the only one I can find is made in Malaysia, and of course that one has all the bad headings attached to it. I'll understand if you don't want to
Etelka

I buy my palm from soap supply places, wonder where theyre getting it from? anyone inquire?

 

[honor435]

Hi Everyone,
I am new here and pretty new to soaping. In my quest to find the best possible ingredients to make soap with, I keep running into formulas and recommendations for really great soap which contain palm oil. I want to make a natural product that is earth friendly. From what I have been reading Palm Oil is really fantastic soap oil but it is really bad for the environment. I read a posting on a soap and candle page today from Tribe Soap that urges consumers to read labels and not to buy hand made soaps that contain palm oil.
So I have some questions: Is there an oil out there that does all the great things palm oil does lather hardness creating a balanced bar? If not then, where can I buy palm oil that is from a sustainable source? One person told me that the palm oil sold at a particular place was "farm raised" I didn't want to get her anymore irritated than she already was but just because it is "farm raised" or even "organic" doesn't mean that it is sustainable. From what I have read the only sustainable source are from West Africa. Does anyone here have more information or further enlightenment for me?
I have been using 100% olive oil and probably will keep doing that but I would like to have a bar that makes a nice bubbly lather. Help!

I did a little reading today on palm, it sounds like it will be the most popular oil, it is in high demand, not sure we can do anything?Its used in everything. We soapers use it in such low amts. would it help? Im open to try a recipe without, im out!