Olive oil alternative

[CecileBC]

Hi everyone

I just wanted your advice on this new challenge I'm facing.

I contacted yesterday a certification agency here in France, to get info about how to have their logo on my soap packaging (bio, cosmos...).
They told me to be aware that OO has increased in price by 30% and keeps going up, especially if made locally. So in order to get a reasonably priced OO, I would have to get an import product and therefore not getting the accreditation.

Getting this certification is important to me, but buying OO locally would probably mean that the soap would end up being too expensive.
The thing is, I have made all my research for formulas for the last three months with OO as my primary oil, of course....

Could I ask you which oil (or combination of oils) you would substitute OO with ?
( I make palm free and vegan soap...)

Thanks heaps !
(Trying not to be too upset about having to work on new formulas all over again !!)

 

[lsg]

Rice Bran oil is a good substitute if it is not to expensive.

 

[CecileBC]

Thank you Isg !
Rice bran is surprisingly not a very common oil here, at least suppliers don't seem to offer it... It's a shame as I've seen many people using it on this forum...

 

[The_Phoenix]

I second @lsg on rice bran oil. I prefer it in soap over olive oil and made the switch to use it as my main liquid fat about a year ago. It’s also less expensive than olive oil, which is a bonus. I do have it shipped as I have not found a local supplier, but even then it’s still less expensive than olive oil.

 

[AliOop]

Rats, what a set-back for you. So sorry!

Blends made from some or all of these oils can work as good OO substitutes: avocado oil, sweet almond oil, HO safflower, and HO sunflower.

Are any of these available to you at reasonable prices?

 

[cmzaha]

What about HO Canola or HO Sunflower Oil? The properties of HO Canola are very similar to OO, while the HO Sunflower is quite a bit higher in Oleic than OO. Rice Bran Oil while considered a close replacement is much lower in Oleic and higher, almost triple, in Linoleic. The two HO oils are a much closer match to OO in respect of the Oleic acid profile but less in Palmitic, which is why I up my tallows and palm oils with those oils.

 

[CecileBC]

Thank you The-Phoenix !
I'll definitely be on the lookout for this oil.

Rats, what a set-back for you. So sorry!

Blends made from some or all of these oils can work as good OO substitutes: avocado oil, sweet almond oil, HO safflower, and HO sunflower.

Are any of these available to you at reasonable prices?

Thanks AliOop,
Yes indeed, sunflower is the least expensive, followed by sweet almond and then avocado. Safflower is out of range...
Time to check their FA contents to adjust and go !

What about HO Canola or HO Sunflower Oil? The properties of HO Canola are very similar to OO, while the HO Sunflower is quite a bit higher in Oleic than OO. Rice Bran Oil while considered a close replacement is much lower in Oleic and higher, almost triple, in Linoleic. The two HO oils are a much closer match to OO in respect of the Oleic acid profile but less in Palmitic, which is why I up my tallows and palm oils with those oils.

Thanks cmzaha,
Yes Canola and sunflower are the least expensive (I have yet to find High oleic types). If they are lower in palmitic, I could maybe add some avocado or cocoa butter for palmitic (I don't use palm oil), or even a wax ?

I second @lsg on rice bran oil. I prefer it in soap over olive oil and made the switch to use it as my main liquid fat about a year ago. It’s also less expensive than olive oil, which is a bonus. I do have it shipped as I have not found a local supplier, but even then it’s still less expensive than olive oil.

Sorry, I answered above without the quote...
Do you mean that you get your RBO from overseas ? It may be what I need to check, as it i not an oil that I can find in any of my suppliers' lists...

 

[KiwiMoose]

They have RBO at Tesco's in the UK, but their own brand of olive oil is cheaper, lol: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/search?query=rice bran oil

What sort of quantities are you purchasing? I find OO from the supermarket is much cheaper here than buying from a soap supplier.

In NZ, avocado oil is very expensive but i like it so I include it at 5% and offset the price with RBO which is very cheap. If you can get avocado oil cheaper than olive - then i would most certainly use that, plus some cocoa or shea butter.

 

[CecileBC]

They have RBO at Tesco's in the UK, but their own brand of olive oil is cheaper, lol: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/search?query=rice bran oil

What sort of quantities are you purchasing? I find OO from the supermarket is much cheaper here than buying from a soap supplier.

In NZ, avocado oil is very expensive but i like it so I include it at 5% and offset the price with RBO which is very cheap. If you can get avocado oil cheaper than olive - then i would most certainly use that, plus some cocoa or shea butter.

Lovely, thank you !

I unfortunately have to buy from a supplier, as here (France, Europe...), the legislation requires that you register your recipe with a toxicologist, including specific suppliers and their safety information sheets... If you change your supplier, you pay; if you change your recipe, you pay; if you breathe, .... Buying from a supermarket is therefore not an option

Wrote a note about Avocado, shea and cocoa, thanks !

 

[Whillow]

Lovely, thank you !

I unfortunately have to buy from a supplier, as here (France, Europe...), the legislation requires that you register your recipe with a toxicologist, including specific suppliers and their safety information sheets... If you change your supplier, you pay; if you change your recipe, you pay; if you breathe, .... Buying from a supermarket is therefore not an option

Wrote a note about Avocado, shea and cocoa, thanks !

Seems like Europe has a tight reign on testing and regulations. I thought Canada was tight LOL.

I also use Canola oil. It is quite a bit cheaper than even OO for me, plus allows me a lot of time to do swirls (provided my fragrance behaves). Apricot kernel oil and grapeseed oil are in some of my recipes as well. I guess Grapeseed oil is cheaper than the Apricot Kernel.

 

[CecileBC]

Seems like Europe has a tight reign on testing and regulations. I thought Canada was tight LOL.

I also use Canola oil. It is quite a bit cheaper than even OO for me, plus allows me a lot of time to do swirls (provided my fragrance behaves). Apricot kernel oil and grapeseed oil are in some of my recipes as well. I guess Grapeseed oil is cheaper than the Apricot Kernel.

Thanks Whillow,

France has historically always been a nightmare in terms of rules and regulations + Europe on top: makes it hellish LOL ! I envy some of you who can twist and turn your recipes without thinking twice about it (well almost... .
Yes Canola oil is also cheap here, but it looks like Apricot kernel is cheaper than grapeseed, in the country of...wine !!

 

[Whillow]

Thanks Whillow,

France has historically always been a nightmare in terms of rules and regulations + Europe on top: makes it hellish LOL ! I envy some of you who can twist and turn your recipes without thinking twice about it (well almost... .
Yes Canola oil is also cheap here, but it looks like Apricot kernel is cheaper than grapeseed, in the country of...wine !!

I wondered about the grapeseed. Totally thought it would be cheaper. I hope you find an answer that enables you to not have to do too much re-registering and testing. That is a nightmare.

 

[CecileBC]

I wondered about the grapeseed. Totally thought it would be cheaper. I hope you find an answer that enables you to not have to do too much re-registering and testing. That is a nightmare.

I take one thing at a time, and try to keep my motivation going. I thank heavens that so many of you in this forum are willing to give a hand, and all your advice is truly my life saver ! Thanks again and again

 

[lsg]

I googled and came up with this link. Making Soap Without Olive Oil: 6 Alternatives + 3 Recipes – Soap Authority

 

[CecileBC]

I googled and came up with this link. Making Soap Without Olive Oil: 6 Alternatives + 3 Recipes – Soap Authority

Hi again
I hadn't seen this one so far, but she is very precise and clear, with extensive info on FA, charts. Great find, thank you !

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Getting this certification is important to me, but buying OO locally would probably mean that the soap would end up being too expensive.

Customers who are willing to pay whatever-the-going-rate-is for a bar of handcrafted soap, will also accommodate price increases. It's a "luxury" item, ?

To my mind, there is no good substitution for Olive Oil in soap. You may even lose potential customers if you make that choice. Simply increase the cost of the soap to accommodate the increase in price of the oil. It's just good business sense.

That's what I always encouraged my wholesale customers to do when this issue came up over the past 10 years. They were pleasantly surprised at the response. Keep in mind, the public is aware that "everything" is more expensive these days.

 

[CecileBC]

Customers who are willing to pay whatever-the-going-rate-is for a bar of handcrafted soap, will also accommodate price increases. It's a "luxury" item, ?

To my mind, there is no good substitution for Olive Oil in soap. You may even lose potential customers if you make that choice. Simply increase the cost of the soap to accommodate the increase in price of the oil. It's just good business sense.

That's what I always encouraged my wholesale customers to do when this issue came up over the past 10 years. They were pleasantly surprised at the response. Keep in mind, the public is aware that "everything" is more expensive these days.

Hi Zany ,

I appreciate your advice, thank you!
I must say you have a strong point in terms of marketing choices.

The person I talked to (from the certification agency) seemed to say that OO prices will get to a point where it will be difficult to sell my soaps - In the southern regions, where I live, people will not buy a soap over 5€ (+ some cents but not over 6€). With EOs and maybe 10 to 15% of a "luxury" liquid oil in the soap, it gets tricky to formulate at a reasonably cost price, especially if one of the base oils rockets in the future - difficult to judge with today's world...

But I do love OO in my soaps! You're right about keeping the quality and justifying the cost - it is a strong marketing point.

Merci

 

[KiwiMoose]

I wonder if this price increase will affect the whole world? I would have thought OO in Europe would be cheaper than anywhere else. How does avocado oil compare price wise? To my mind Avocado is more special than Olive.

Incidentally - how much OO do you use? If it's 20 - 30% then the cost per bar won't be overly affected. just a matter of cents.

 

[CecileBC]

I wonder if this price increase will affect the whole world? I would have thought OO in Europe would be cheaper than anywhere else. How does avocado oil compare price wise? To my mind Avocado is more special than Olive.

Incidentally - how much OO do you use? If it's 20 - 30% then the cost per bar won't be overly affected. just a matter of cents.

From what I understand, because of the recession, people have stocked some oils, making prices increase. I was told by a producer that unless there is a specific disease affecting the olive trees, there would be no justification for price increases other than market deals due to a recession. And apparently recession time is not over, at least in this part of the world ...

So far, avocado oil is more than twice the price of OO, so it would only be an option at a small rate, for its palmitic content...

I use from 30 to 40% OO in my recipes; enough to make price increases a worry...

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Here's a neat little trick I use with SoapCalc when I want to sub one oil for another.

First, choose Olive Oil at 100% and hit Calculate.
That shows up in the Right column.
Go down the list of oils, ticking one at a time.
That shows up in the Left column.
So you can then see how each oil compares to OO

Left Column: HO Sunflower vs. Right Column: Olive Oil

I hope this tip helps you find the right oil for your purposes and budget.