Oh My... The Soaping is Not Going Well

[Ganiggle]

I have made a total of three batches so far.

My first batch was 65% palm, 25%coconut and 10% shea butter. Superfat about 8%
It was ridiculous to get out of the molds and formed a very fine layer of what I believe is the ash everybody talks about, but overall I'd say it's the best soap I have made yet.

My second batch was:

40% Lard
20% Coconut
10% Olive
10% Safflower
10% Sunflower
10% Shea Butter
Superfat 6%

It has turned out to be what I'd like to call an abomination! This was the batch that had the oil sitting on top for a while. It soaked back in, and now there's a thick layer of "ash" on top. I unmolded and they were all so soft that they broke in the mold, but that's not all. The honey, oats and cocoa powder I added all sank to the bottom, so now there's this nasty layer of oily oats and cocoa powder sitting on the tops of all the soaps. Half of it came off in the molds too, didn't come out cleanly at all.

My third batch was:

35% Lard
25% Coconut
15% Sunflower Oil
10% Shea Butter
10% Olive Oil
5% Grapeseed Oil
Superfat 8%

I'm added honey at trace, and I'm still not entirely sure about this batch, but I think it's bad too! Before i unmolded today, I noticed what i think might be the dreaded orange spots where the air has been hitting the soap directly. They are sitting there curing right now, and I'm pretty sure that after a while there will be orange spots on the tops of the soaps too. If that is what they are. This is the first batch that doesn't have the layer of ash though, so I must have done something right!

This is going to turn into a novel of a post if it isn't already, but I must be doing something wrong! Can any of you experienced soapers tell me what it is that might be going wrong with my soaps? Would my third batch really get DOS that quickly? Is that normal? Is there anything wrong with my ingredients?

For the record, all of my batches were mixed at between 100 and 115 degrees fahrenheit, would the temp have anything to do with it?

I'm starting to lose confidence in my ability to make soap, so if anybody could give me some words of wisdom, or even just some encouragement, that would be super-ultra-fantastic indeed.

P.S. What causes the ash?

 

[andreja]

Sorry this is happening to you.

You can prevent ash by putting baking paper or freezer paper on top. OR you can spray some alcohol on top.

WHen you are adding oatmeal and other solid additives to your soap, don't add it at thin trace, wait until is more medium.

As for soap sticking to mold. Are you lining your molds at all? Also, maybe you are cutting it too early?

Your last batch with honey. I am pretty sure those orange spots are undissolved honey. You can't get DOS so quickly, if you are using good (not rancid) oils. Next time set some of your oils aside and melt your honey in it.

Don't give up, hun! You can make it!

 

[MsBien]

Hello, don't worry it takes a while to get the kinks out. You'll get it.

I'm pretty sure that DOS shows its ugly face much later, so you're probably okay with that. And, I soap at around the same temperature, so I don't think it could be that.

Keep trying, when it works it's fabulous!

Stacie

 

[ChrissyB]

HI Ganiggle!!
Ash is caused by the oxygen hitting the open area of the soap. Some soapers cover the soap with plastic food wrap to avoid it, some spray with ethanol alcohol after pouring the soap to avoid it, some (like me!) choose to go with the flow and "embrace the ash". I actually like the ash on soaps with the textured tops, it sort of reminds me of snow, I think it's pretty.
As far as batch number three, DOS takes weeks, even months to develop, there is no way that you could have DOS on a batch of soap that you just made.
Are you using plastic individual moulds? I have the most success using those moulds if I wipe the inside with a very fine layer of mineral (baby) oil, pour the soap, let it set up, then put it in the freezer for a while. When I take it out, I make a shallow bath in the kitchen sink of hot water, put the bottom of the mould in the water, it helps for an easy release of the soap. Sometimes just the freezer works, it makes the soap contract a little bit, so it's easier to get out.
Your first batch sounds lovely, sometimes it's the simplest recipes that are the best. As a newcomer to soapmaking, if I were you, I wouldn't confuse myself with trying to use too many different oils per batch, start of with a simple recipe, get the hang of the different phases and processes that the soap goes through, then start playing around and introducing different oils. That way it's easier to identify a problem and rectify it.
I don't think it's DOS in your third batch, I'd say it's spots of honey, it's a real bugger to get mixed in properly, and it can cause your soap to overheat.
I dissolve a little icing sugar in my water before I put the lye in, make sure it's thoroughly dissolved or the lye will burn it. I find that this helps with bubbles! I use 1 teaspoon of icing sugar per 500 grams of oils.
As far as all your oats and cocoa sinking, with additives like oats you have to put them in at least medium trace, otherwise they won't hold up and they will sink to the bottem.
Don't get disheartened, soaping is all about trial and error, and it's all a learning curve. Maybe start back up again with a nice 75% Olive Oil/25% Coconut batch, or even a 100% Coconut batch with a 20% superfat, that makes a lovely bar of soap.
Baby steps!!

 

[Guest]

why don't you try "restarting" with very very simple recipes

I think my first was lard, coconut and olive, with nothing added

I also did hot process first so I could use my product sooner

I hope you continue, and I know how discouraging it can feel when soap doesn't turn out right...but that feeling does pass..

 

[Ganiggle]

Sorry this is happening to you.

You can prevent ash by putting baking paper or freezer paper on top. OR you can spray some alcohol on top.

WHen you are adding oatmeal and other solid additives to your soap, don't add it at thin trace, wait until is more medium.

As for soap sticking to mold. Are you lining your molds at all? Also, maybe you are cutting it too early?

Your last batch with honey. I am pretty sure those orange spots are undissolved honey. You can't get DOS so quickly, if you are using good (not rancid) oils. Next time set some of your oils aside and melt your honey in it.

Don't give up, hun! You can make it!

Thank you! I'm not lining my molds. The molds I'm using are like... plastic molds I got from Michaels. I'm waiting for a wood mold to get shipped to me, which I already have the freezer paper to line it with, but how would I line plastic molds? They are like trays with three or four cavities that you put the soap in, and some have designs in them. i tried putting them in the freezer for about an hour and then trying to pop them out, but pieces of the soap still get left in the mold, so the design is ruined I really can't wait for the wood mold to get here, as I prefer the old fashioned look of a plain bar rather than some kind of flowery looking design.

It probably is undesolved honey now that I think about it. Good to know that the oils wouldn't go rancid that quickly. I have purchased all of my oils in the last three weeks, so I don't think that they are expired or anything like that.

 

[Ganiggle]

Wow, lots of replies! So quickly too! Thank you all so much for your kind words and encouragement!

I think I will try simplifying the next few recipes that I do. Although using multiple oils is fun, I think I might try to go back to basics, or I might not lol. I like to jump ahead to advanced stuff quickly and then just learn from mistakes. I think I understand what I did wrong now in both cases of failure-soap. With the one with oats, I just didn't let it get to a thick enough trace, and now that I know that the little orange spots are not of the dreaded variety, I think the third batch will actually be pretty sweet after all!

i do have really sensitive skin, so for my next batch I've been contemplating doing the 100% olive oil one. Although I do like the idea of a 75/25 olive and coconut mix!

I am vowing right now though that I will always make sure that I reach a medium (at least) trace before I go and add a bunch of stuff!

Oh the possibilities...

Oh, and seriously? You guys rock socks big time! You have all helped me so much!

One more quick question about the ash. It won't burn me or anything if I leave it on the soap will it?

 

[LJA]

Sorry this is happening to you.

You can prevent ash by putting baking paper or freezer paper on top. OR you can spray some alcohol on top.

WHen you are adding oatmeal and other solid additives to your soap, don't add it at thin trace, wait until is more medium.

As for soap sticking to mold. Are you lining your molds at all? Also, maybe you are cutting it too early?

Your last batch with honey. I am pretty sure those orange spots are undissolved honey. You can't get DOS so quickly, if you are using good (not rancid) oils. Next time set some of your oils aside and melt your honey in it.

Don't give up, hun! You can make it!

Thank you! I'm not lining my molds. The molds I'm using are like... plastic molds I got from Michaels. I'm waiting for a wood mold to get shipped to me, which I already have the freezer paper to line it with, but how would I line plastic molds? They are like trays with three or four cavities that you put the soap in, and some have designs in them. i tried putting them in the freezer for about an hour and then trying to pop them out, but pieces of the soap still get left in the mold, so the design is ruined I really can't wait for the wood mold to get here, as I prefer the old fashioned look of a plain bar rather than some kind of flowery looking design.

It probably is undesolved honey now that I think about it. Good to know that the oils wouldn't go rancid that quickly. I have purchased all of my oils in the last three weeks, so I don't think that they are expired or anything like that.

Niggs -
1 tsp. per pound of oils (PPO, you'll see that a lot here) is plenty of honey and that's probably the orange spot culprit. Mix that sucker in well and I don't insulate when I use honey because it gets HOT and can "volcano" out of your mold like some alien in a sci-fi flick. Bad news. You can also get honey "tunnels" where your soap caves in to reveal hollows filled with honey. I think the molds you're using are the ones made for M&P soap. If you really can't wait on your wood mold, pick up a silicone loaf pan. Those work well (NO STICKING! NO LINING!) You can get one for $10 usually.
Don't get too bummed out....we've all made "abomination" soap...lol. And no, the ash won't burn you. It's just ugly. You can cut it off, leave it, wipe it off with a damp rag etc.

 

[safire_6]

I started with a simple recipe of coconut, palm and olive oil and didn't have any problems. I was wondering what all this stuff about seizing, curdling, fast tracing was about and then I made one little change to it. It makes a difference! I think that staying with a simple recipe helps to build confidence. If I had problems right out of the gate I would have given up.

 

[tincanac]

not really a reply to your question - but wanted to say that you (in your profile pic??) are as cute as your moniker!!

 

[xraygrl]

I agree you should start out simple. Are you using a stick blender? The batch with the oil on top sounds like you had some separation issues so most likely you didn't get a true trace.

As far as the ash goes, you can leave it on or cut it off....it's just aesthetic issues and won't harm in any way.

those molds from M's really aren't made for CP....they are flimsy and won't hold up well. Your soap most likely didn't gel and will be stuck in there for quite some time.

You can use Milk cartons, shoe boxes and things like that for molds while you are waiting for your wood molds to ship. Line them with freezer paper.

 

[Ganiggle]

Niggs -
1 tsp. per pound of oils (PPO, you'll see that a lot here) is plenty of honey and that's probably the orange spot culprit. Mix that sucker in well and I don't insulate when I use honey because it gets HOT and can "volcano" out of your mold like some alien in a sci-fi flick. Bad news. You can also get honey "tunnels" where your soap caves in to reveal hollows filled with honey. I think the molds you're using are the ones made for M&P soap. If you really can't wait on your wood mold, pick up a silicone loaf pan. Those work well (NO STICKING! NO LINING!) You can get one for $10 usually.
Don't get too bummed out....we've all made "abomination" soap...lol. And no, the ash won't burn you. It's just ugly. You can cut it off, leave it, wipe it off with a damp rag etc.

Thanks! I was using two tablespoons PPO for the honey, so I probably did use too much. I like the idea of no sticking! I've seen silicone molds at Superstore, for making cupcakes and stuff, so maybe I'll try one of those next time I'm there, if my wood mold doesn't get here first

 

[Ganiggle]

I started with a simple recipe of coconut, palm and olive oil and didn't have any problems. I was wondering what all this stuff about seizing, curdling, fast tracing was about and then I made one little change to it. It makes a difference! I think that staying with a simple recipe helps to build confidence. If I had problems right out of the gate I would have given up.

Yeah I think I might go back to some simpler recipes. With these last few sets, especially the second one that I did, I felt like i was just wasting all my ingredients!

 

[Ganiggle]

not really a reply to your question - but wanted to say that you (in your profile pic??) are as cute as your moniker!!

Hehe, oh thank you! You're going to make me blush

 

[Ganiggle]

I agree you should start out simple. Are you using a stick blender? The batch with the oil on top sounds like you had some separation issues so most likely you didn't get a true trace.

As far as the ash goes, you can leave it on or cut it off....it's just aesthetic issues and won't harm in any way.

those molds from M's really aren't made for CP....they are flimsy and won't hold up well. Your soap most likely didn't gel and will be stuck in there for quite some time.

You can use Milk cartons, shoe boxes and things like that for molds while you are waiting for your wood molds to ship. Line them with freezer paper.

Ugh, yeah I'm starting to think that these molds aren't up to the task! The soap just doesn't want to come out no matter what I do!

 

[heartsong]

x

you've got to "keep the faith!"

if you are using the small individual "bar soaps" put them in the freezer and let them harden. it's always best to coat them with a bit of cooking spray before filling.

you would like the olive oil and coconut oil soap, it's very gentle. and it doesn't act like a drama queen, either. i like to soap olive oil about 100 degrees at 33% (lye x 2=water)

if you add honey, take maybe an ounce of water before you add the lye, warm it a bit and add the honey. stir until disolved, then add to soap batch after you added in your lye/water mix.

relax and focus, you can do it, just remember this is supposed to be fun and recreational!

 

[Guest]

Sorry you are having trouble ganiggle . You could rebatch your soap , it isn't hard and you can create some fantastic soap of the not so fantastic batches ?
I rebatched a few :wink: when I started out making soap.
Kitn

 

[honor435]

did you ever get your log mold? and how is it going? if you want to use your michales molds, do hp, they come out better, or hp in log mold is great too.

 

[mandolyn]

Well, you've already gotten lots of great advice, so I don't have much to add. I think you already see the benefits of starting simple. I think lots of us started with a simple 3-oil recipe & had successful first batches:

33% Olive
33% Coconut
33% Palm

You can add a scent to that at trace. With your oil separating, you didn't mix it enough. Are you using a stick blender?

Before adding oatmeal, etc, you need to get a handle on the various stages of trace. It sounds like you were rushing the mixing, so slow down a bit. Don't be afraid to experience the various stages of trace. For your first batch notice thin trace, watch for medium trace, & even let it get to pudding or thick trace before pouring. You won't have additives to worry about, so you can see all 3 stages of trace without feeling like you need to hurry & add something.

Don't be discouraged, but do give yourself some time to learn the basics.

 

[BlueSky]

Hi Ganiggle. I am also addicted to the tray molds and, as a newbie soap maker, I have been struggling through many botched batches! Here is what what I have discovered.

First, using a basting brush, I coat the mold with a thin layer of mineral oil.

Second, I have been mixing my fats and lye at a higher temperature (100-110 degrees). I had been experiencing a lot of ash and mottled coloring, and I believe it was caused by the molds cooling too quickly due to the small amount of soap in each individual mold. I tried prewarming the mold and ended up ruining two of them because they really cannot tolerate temperatures above 140 degrees. Then someone in the forum (IrishLass?) commented that smaller sized batches are better suited to a higher temperature mixing range. That made sense to me because the higher temperature of the formula would allow a slower cooling process. Therefore the 100-110 degree range.

Third, be sure to cover the mold immediately and wrap in an insulating blanket for 24 hours and do not peek!.

Fourth, work your mold from the outer edges to get a bubble to start. Once there is an air pocket, you can work it around the rest of the mold. And, if all else fails, a quick shot in the freezer does wonders.

I just unmolded my first Castille recipe from a square 9 bar tray. It is absolutely gorgeous! It has a creamy yellow color that makes the bars look like big pats of butter! I did not use any color or fragrance since it was Castille, but I think next time I will try some EO. I think that would be a nicer smell than OO. Well, this was long, but I hope you can gleen something of value from it. Have fun.