Ocean water soaps

[dragonmaker]

These were made with water from the ocean that I got on a trip to see my sister. These soaps will go as Christmas presents for the siblings that went on that trip.

 

[Ekuzo]

Looks great!

Is this the first time you made such soap - and if not - have you noticed any problem with DOS or soap scum because of all the minerals in the ocean water?

 

[dragonmaker]

It’s my first time using ocean water so I haven’t had time to develop DOS. Other people use ocean water all the time and I haven’t heard of DOS as an issue. Maybe @KiwiMoose has an answer? I think she uses sea water sometimes

 

[Misschief]

I use ocean water in a couple of my soaps and have done for several years. I've had zero issues. I do boil the water to sterilize it after I get it home. Mine usually comes from Canada's westest coast (off the west coast of Vancouver Island).

 

[dragonmaker]

I boiled my sea water before using it too. Good to know I don’t have to worry about DOS from the water.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use sea water quite often too. I have just experienced DOS in a recent batch (made November 2023). The DOS appeared at about 6-8 months of age. Not sure if it's the sea water or whether I used that dreaded dark purple mica that was causing DOS in all my soaps. I think I had cottoned on to the mica issue in November, so the only other odd-bod in there is the sea water. I used a different batch of sea water collected from the east coast rather than west coast water I had used previously. So it could be that? The only way to know is if I make another batch with the same water.

 

[Ekuzo]

I mean, if hard tap water has minerals in it, and sea water also has lots of minerals in it (even more) - how come so many people get DOS from tap water and those who make soap with sea water (usually) don't? Maybe I'm missing on something and there's some crucial difference between the two, so one of them just works while the other doesn't.

A quick Google search gives this result: 'According to scientific analysis, seawater contains a minimum of 78 different minerals, from the most commonly found, such as magnesium and calcium, to trace elements such as gold and silver in very low quantities.' Another source states around 85 different minerals.

Maybe it's a question of finding the right additives (chelators/antioxidants/conservatives) to prevent DOS? Anyway, I thought it would spark an interesting discussion. And I'm curious what KiwiMoose concludes regarding her batch.

P.S.: The wood grain combined with the custom impression gives the soap an unique rustic look!

 

[Misschief]

I mean, if hard tap water has minerals in it, and sea water also has lots of minerals in it (even more) - how come so many people get DOS from tap water and those who make soap with sea water (usually) don't? Maybe I'm missing on something and there's some crucial difference between the two, so one of them just works while the other doesn't.

Just to add something more to the discussion, when I first started making soap, I used tap water and, occasionally, well water (we still have a well on the property) and the only time I ever experienced dos was when I ignorantly used a metal loaf pan as a mold or when I left my soap on a metal baking rack, again, before I knew better. Or when using oils that are prone to dos in too high a concentration. After learning what not to do, I rarely encounter dos.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@Ekuzo when it comes to DOS, it’s transition metals that are problematic in any water we use. These metals, like iron, copper, chromium and nickel, facilitate oxidation of lipids (see this article as an example). Transition metals are typically found at very, very low/trace levels in “clean” seawater where they would normally be rendered more or less non-reactive by virtue of being inside a living organism or bound to some kind of non-living organic matter.

 

[Ekuzo]

Just to add something more to the discussion, when I first started making soap, I used tap water and, occasionally, well water (we still have a well on the property) and the only time I ever experienced dos was when I ignorantly used a metal loaf pan as a mold or when I left my soap on a metal baking rack, again, before I knew better. Or when using oils that are prone to dos in too high a concentration. After learning what not to do, I rarely encounter dos.

Definitely depends on the source, it seems. When I started making soap I used tap water (water supply network) to see how good it was for that application even though most people advise against it. Almost all the soap I made within the first couple of months developed DOS later. One of the few that didn't was 100% CO soap. After I transitioned to deionized water (that's what I have easy access to, haven't tried distilled yet) and started adding citric acid to all batches, I only got DOS when I used certain oils at a certain %, just as you - those cases are easy to isolate. Thanks for the reply!

@Ekuzo when it comes to DOS, it’s transition metals that are problematic in any water we use. These metals, like iron, copper, chromium and nickel, facilitate oxidation of lipids (see this article as an example). Transition metals are typically found at very, very low/trace levels in “clean” seawater where they would normally be rendered more or less non-reactive by virtue of being inside a living organism or bound to some kind of non-living organic matter.

So average sea water is better than hard tap water in that it has much lower concentrations of those particular metals. And most of the time they're in such state that they usually don't cause trouble, much different from tap water. I couldn't find the link to the article you mentioned, but I got your point, thanks for the input!

 

[KimLynn]

I used sea water from northeastern Florida, boiled it first, and had absolutely no issues.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I couldn't find the link to the article you mentioned...

Sorry about that. I added it above.