Newbie here! I think I might have a problem...

[Seawolfe]

When I first started my soaps were 70% olive oil and 30% coconut oil because that was all I had - I found that a superfat of 8-9% and a good long cure made even this simple soap pretty darn good.

But if you are in South America then I KNOW you can find some nice manteca or lard Oh and check at your chemists or pharmacy for castor oil.

 

[Lindy]

I was just looking at your recipe. Your water as a percentage of oils is way too high which means your lye concentration is too low. Work with lye concentration and get it to at least 30 - 33% other wise it is going to take forever and a day to cure out.

 

[JustBeachy]

I was just looking at your recipe. Your water as a percentage of oils is way too high which means your lye concentration is too low. Work with lye concentration and get it to at least 30 - 33% other wise it is going to take forever and a day to cure out.

You're absolutely right about longer cure times, but I'm of the mindset that while learning to soap, experimenting with unknown fragrance, etc. it's better to stick with full water. It gives you a little more play room. Once you start getting the hang of the game, start discounting the water down 2 to 3 percent. If all is still going well, then you can hop on down to the low 30's. Just my opinion though. Extreme is the soapers name.

 

[Lindy]

The problem is that at this %age there is not only a really long cure time but it will be a week before you can pull it from the mould :shock: 30% lye concentration is considered full water if you look at the lye calculators they are set at 33% default. So you have to adjust it down to get that low.

 

[JustBeachy]

When I first started soaping again, SoapCalc was all i used, and I didn't change the defaults for a couple of months. Pretty sure the recipe he posted is using the SoapCalc defaults.Never had a soap that took longer than 24 hours to unmold. Now all I use is SoapMaker3, which defaults to a much lower water.

I understand completely in what you're saying. I tend to soap mainly around the 30% water mark. But for a new soaper, the full water recipe gives them more time to mix, more time to play with colors and more leeway when it comes to problem fragrances. I guess the way I look at it, is at this stage of Extreme's learning process, it should be more about learning the process. Learning the way trace looks. What do the different oils bring to the table. What is a problem FO. Then they can start thinking about how to get it out of the mold faster. Just my opinion.

Added: Just ran his recipe through SoapCalc , he didn't change any of the defaults. The recipe he posted is the default settings on SoapCalc.

 

[Lindy]

Hmmm I know that he started off by posting a problem with the soap being too soft to cut and I expect the problem is the water discount. Now just as a disclaimer (hee hee) I only used SoapCalc a few times before I bought SM3

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

In this case, I can see that lowering it is a good idea - high OO recipe with full water. That's why I suggest that one of the worst recipes for a beginner is Castile.

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

Wow, I took forever to find this thread!

Guys, I've failed miserably last night. Again.

Remember I said my stick blender, after 40 excruciating minutes it overheated and stopped working?
I thought it was just a matter of cooling down and it would be ok... It wouldn't. After 2 minutes the thing died on me. Mid-trace. It was very frustrating.
I kept mixing with a hand mixer for a while and the stick blender would function for like 10 seconds after 10 minutes cooling. Needless to say, I kept doing this for at least 1 hour, and didn't reach trace. It was late and I gave up. Poured that oily mess anyway.

Weirdly, there is a 1cm (1/3 inch) layer of liquid, and then it's pretty hard underneath.... Harder than my second soap (the pink one) already (wich I haven't cut it yet because it STILL too soft 3 days later)

should I just throw it away?



As observed already, I've been using the soapcalc default water, wich is 38%. I think you guys might be right about the excessive water. It makes sense. Next time I'm going to try 35%.

Also, I'm so buying the most expensive stick blender I can find... I'll see if my mother still has her stick blender from the 80's... that thing is solid. heehee

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

When you get a new one (which doesn't need to be expensive) work it in bursts rather than constantly. That should help it last longer.

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

I know... that's what I do... It's just a really crappy piece of equipment. It was the cheapest available, costed around 40 dollars, only 250w. I'll buy a sturdier one with 400w.

ALSO, I noticed the thing was INJECTING air into the mixture.
I hate it.

this is the thing:

 

[Obsidian]

No, don't toss it. Pour the oil off into a crock pot then chop the soap up and put it in the crock too. Cook it on low and stir often, once its soft and mixed together well, stuff it back in the mold. It won't be the best looking soap but it will be usable.

 

[Obsidian]

Its weird your SB died so soon. I bought a cheap $20 one and its still going after a year of use.

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

Will a regular pan on the stove do the trick? I don't have a crockpot...


also, it was my fault that the SB died, I'm not even going to ask for a new one or a refund. During the making of my second soap, I really stressed the thing and overheated it way too much. I shouldn't have done that.

 

[Obsidian]

You can use a double boiler on the stove or a large pot in the oven but I don't know what temp to run the oven as I've not done it that way. Make sure you don't use aluminum, stainless steel only for soap.

 

[JustBeachy]

Hmmm I know that he started off by posting a problem with the soap being too soft to cut and I expect the problem is the water discount. Now just as a disclaimer (hee hee) I only used SoapCalc a few times before I bought SM3

Yeah, SoapCalc is set up to be New Soaper friendly, keeping the water high.

I think there is something going on here, other than just a full water. Now if he was using more than full water, maybe the softness would be caused just by the excess water.

But here's the deal, while Craig is right about full water and Castile for curing, I've made a couple of batches of 100% OO soap, using the default SoapCalc settings. All of them came out of the mold in 24 hours and cut at 48, no problem. Something else is going on. No way first batches should have taken 40 mins to trace with a stick blender. Not even if it was 100% OO

Extreme, Looking through this thread, I'm thinking there could be a number of reasons.

First, check your lye. Is it 100% NaOH? How old is it? If your lye isn't right, it would explain the long trace, separation of oils and soft molds.

I'm seeing at the first you said you are using " some knock-off essence oils ". Are these carrier oils with fragrance by chance? Have you tried a batch, with no fragrance yet?

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

Hey seawolfe, you know your way around south america huh?? You were completely right about the Castor Oil, it's used as a laxative around here, and sold at pharmacies. I couldn't find any at a reasonable price in regular pharmacies, I'm going to try an distributor, they said I could find it there.

Beachy, the lye is pretty solid, it is 100% NaOH, and the clerk said he has regular customers who buy that brand for this purpose.

About the fragrance oils, I don't know the answer to your question and I'm at work at the moment so I can't check, but I don't think that's related, because I always add them in the last minute, after I "get trace" or "give up getting trace" heeheh


oohhhh
sooo
I just remembered I'm not using destilled water... only filtered tap water.
Maybe that's it?



please don't kill me

 

[Obsidian]

Nope, tap water won't cause slow trace. A though I just had, did you weight your water out or use a measuring cup?

 

[Extreme_Soaping]

weighted

 

[JustBeachy]

Hey seawolfe, you know your way around south america huh?? You were completely right about the Castor Oil, it's used as a laxative around here, and sold at pharmacies. I couldn't find any at a reasonable price in regular pharmacies, I'm going to try an distributor, they said I could find it there.

Beachy, the lye is pretty solid, it is 100% NaOH, and the clerk said he has regular customers who buy that brand for this purpose.

About the fragrance oils, I don't know the answer to your question and I'm at work at the moment so I can't check, but I don't think that's related, because I always add them in the last minute, after I "get trace" ou "give up getting trace" heeheh


oohhhh
sooo
I just remembered I'm not using destilled water... only filtered tap water.
Maybe that's it?



please don't kill me

haha, no worries, questions are part of what this forum is all about. The type of water shouldn't be causing the problems. My grandma soaped with the worst sulfur water known to mankind.

Get your new stick blender after a batch and see how it works. If the lye is good, then I'm sticking with a blending issue, which could be causing a false trace. You can drop your water a bit, but don't go overboard at this stage. Try say 35.

If it were me, I'd stay with the original recipe and try the new SB first. People make hundreds of batches of well behaved soap, using the defaults on SoapCalc all the time. Your last recipe should trace in under 5 mins using a stick blender, even at the defaults.

Once you start changing multiple things at once, you lose the ability to pin point the problem.

 

[navigator9]

Look for a stick blender that has holes on the bell at the bottom. This helps to release air that gets trapped there, and then mixed into the soap batter. Also, when you insert it into the batter, do it at an angle, to help release air. One more tip about mixing that has worked for me. I'm guessing you're using a spatula to scrape the batter into the mold, so try this. After you remove the stick blender from the batter, take the spatula and stir and scrape the sides and bottom of the container or pot, and then stir again before you pour. I've come to believe that stick blenders don't do as thorough a job of mixing as we think. I think other factors may be involved too, the size of the batch, the shape of the container, how much you move the stick blender around. I used to get some batches that had an uneven, mottled look, and now that I do this, it doesn't happen any more. Good luck to you!