New Soaper...Old Questions??

[RetroactiveSoap]

Smart Balance Omega
http://www.smartbalance.com/OilsFamily.aspx

Does anyone have experience with this oil for making soap. I thought it would be a nice way to get a blended oil cheaply for soap, but I'm starting to question it's ability as an oil base.

It seems the soaps are just too soft. Going on my second batch with this oil and on day 2 it has the consistency of wall putty. It will sloooowwwly firm up (about 2 weeks) but it still isn't as hard as my castle soap was in 1 day.

2 thoughts....

Would cutting this oil back and replace what I cut with olive oil firm it up quicker?

How much does the ambient room temp effect soap curing?

Last batch looked something like this.

42 oz of smartblend
6 oz of coconut 76 (may be 78)
17oz water
6.5 oz of lye


This stuff is cost effective if I can get it to work...


Finally, these 2 botched batches....is there a way to change them to liquid soap so I can use them rather then throw them out?

 

[Lindy]

You could try increasing your lye to harden it up?

 

[Deda]

You could try increasing your lye to harden it up?

Absolutely NOT! Increasing the lye would result in a DANGEROUSLY LYE HEAVY bar. No Way.

Don't ever try increasing the lye as a means to harden up a soft bar. Beeswax, Stearic Acid and salt are much safer ways to experiment.

Unless you can determine SAP value of the oil/oil blend you're trying to soap it's just a guess, anyway.

This is from the SmartBalance website -

Ingredients
EXPRELLER-PRESSED NATURAL OIL BLEND (PALM FRUIT*, SOYBEAN*, CANOLA* AND OLIVE* OILS), FILTERED WATER, PURE SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR (DERIVED FROM CORN, NO MSG, NO ALCOHOL, NO GLUTEN), CRUSHED SOYBEANS*, SOY LECITHIN*, LACTIC ACID (NON-DAIRY, DERIVED FROM SUGAR BEETS), COLORED WITH BETA CAROTENE FROM NATURAL SOURCES.

From reading the ingreds it looks like your 'oil blend' already contains water. So you already have a lye heavy batch.

Possibly write to the company and ask for the percentages to do a backwards calculation to figure the SAP value.

Personally, I've never heard of soaping with a Margarine blend, probably because of the lack of a SAP. If you want to play around with cheap and readily available oils try using Crisco.

Good Luck!

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

You could try increasing your lye to harden it up?

Absolutely NOT! Increasing the lye would result in a DANGEROUSLY LYE HEAVY bar. No Way.

Don't ever try increasing the lye as a means to harden up a soft bar. Beeswax, Stearic Acid and salt are much safer ways to experiment.

Unless you can determine SAP value of the oil/oil blend you're trying to soap it's just a guess, anyway.

This is from the SmartBalance website -

Ingredients
EXPRELLER-PRESSED NATURAL OIL BLEND (PALM FRUIT*, SOYBEAN*, CANOLA* AND OLIVE* OILS), FILTERED WATER, PURE SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR (DERIVED FROM CORN, NO MSG, NO ALCOHOL, NO GLUTEN), CRUSHED SOYBEANS*, SOY LECITHIN*, LACTIC ACID (NON-DAIRY, DERIVED FROM SUGAR BEETS), COLORED WITH BETA CAROTENE FROM NATURAL SOURCES.

From reading the ingreds it looks like your 'oil blend' already contains water. So you already have a lye heavy batch.

Possibly write to the company and ask for the percentages to do a backwards calculation to figure the SAP value.

Personally, I've never heard of soaping with a Margarine blend, probably because of the lack of a SAP. If you want to play around with cheap and readily available oils try using Crisco.

Good Luck!

So bang on, I'd be willing to bet that the percentages will vary with a blended cheap oil like this..depending on the market value of each component at any given moment.

While waiting, I did a one pound batch with 55% Crisco...just to see what would happen. Same water, same lye ratio for a one pound batch. I don't want to up the lye. Chances are I'd make soap that would dry you out, or worse.. Would cutting water be a better alternative without making soap that drys you out?

I'll report in a few days on the 55% Crisco batch, it did seem to trace faster and seems twice as hard in half the time...expected.

 

[Lindy]

OMG - I am so sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't bother checking to see what is in the blend and because of that I didn't run it through my soapmaker.

Deda thank you for correcting me!

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

OMG - I am so sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't bother checking to see what is in the blend and because of that I didn't run it through my soapmaker.

Deda thank you for correcting me!

Don't feel bad, neither did I! lol

I just broke it down symmetrically in the calculator. Thinking it would work out....the 55% crisco should toughen it up. Seems like canola oil is the culprit, and the additional water.

Doesn't seem too bad, just takes FOREVER to get solid.. I say forever, but it's only been like 2 weeks for batch one...and it's STARTING to look usable.

I take it 2 weeks for a new soaper is an eternity.

 

[Lindy]

2 weeks for any of us is an eternity....

 

[Deda]

What do you mean 55% Crisco? What was the other 45%?

Are you running each and every recipe - every single time - thorough a lye calc?

Oils cannot be substituted in a recipe without recalculating the amount of lye.
Well, they CAN, but they SHOULDN'T be. :wink:

 

[mandolyn]

What do you mean 55% Crisco? What was the other 45%?

Are you running each and every recipe - every single time - thorough a lye calc?

Oils cannot be substituted in a recipe without recalculating the amount of lye.
Well, they CAN, but they SHOULDN'T be. :wink:

First, I ditto everything Deda has said.

I ran your numbers through soapcalc using CRISCO. If the Smartblend doesn't have the exact same oils as Crisco, then it won't work. You can't swap oils without re-calculating for lye. To calculate the amount of lye, you need to know the SAP value of each oil.

Also, I know lots of soapers are subbing oils in recipes & using cheaper oils. Just a word of caution:

Many cheaper oils have shorter shelf lives. Canola is a really cheap oil, but it's shelf-life is only 6 months-1 year. Lots of soapers are finding that soaps high in these cheaper, short shelf-life oils go rancid.

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

What do you mean 55% Crisco? What was the other 45%?

Are you running each and every recipe - every single time - thorough a lye calc?

Oils cannot be substituted in a recipe without recalculating the amount of lye.
Well, they CAN, but they SHOULDN'T be. :wink:

Yes, I run it through the calculator every time...BUT..as mentioned earlier the mystery here is the break down of the Smartblend I'm using for the other 45%...seems hopeless, if it already has water in it, and you don't know the percentages...Your just shooting in the dark.

The batches are coming out sticky, and mushy even after a few days in the mold, I was hoping that by substituting 55% criso it would toughen it up a bit.

 

[mandolyn]

Even if you get it to work, you don't know exactly what's in it. I don't know if you're planning on selling it, but if you are, you're not going to be able to label your soap accurately. As a consumer, that would bother me.

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

Would I have to get more accurate then.

Soy, Canola, Olive Oil, Vegetable Oil, Lye and Water?

That's exactly what is in it.

 

[Deda]

EXPRELLER-PRESSED NATURAL OIL BLEND (PALM FRUIT*, SOYBEAN*, CANOLA* AND OLIVE* OILS), FILTERED WATER, PURE SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR (DERIVED FROM CORN, NO MSG, NO ALCOHOL, NO GLUTEN), CRUSHED SOYBEANS*, SOY LECITHIN*, LACTIC ACID (NON-DAIRY, DERIVED FROM SUGAR BEETS), COLORED WITH BETA CAROTENE FROM NATURAL SOURCES.

All of these things are in it too. You still can't get the SAP value until you get the exact breakdown of the ingreds by percentage.

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

EXPRELLER-PRESSED NATURAL OIL BLEND (PALM FRUIT*, SOYBEAN*, CANOLA* AND OLIVE* OILS), FILTERED WATER, PURE SALT, NATURAL FLAVOR (DERIVED FROM CORN, NO MSG, NO ALCOHOL, NO GLUTEN), CRUSHED SOYBEANS*, SOY LECITHIN*, LACTIC ACID (NON-DAIRY, DERIVED FROM SUGAR BEETS), COLORED WITH BETA CAROTENE FROM NATURAL SOURCES.

All of these things are in it too. You still can't get the SAP value until you get the exact breakdown of the ingreds by percentage.

Add "PALM FRUIT*" to the label..eliminate the soy redundancy..add lactic acid from sugar beets, and 100% natural coloring, then the label would absolutely be accurate.

SAP value will be imposable to attain then...going to have to use different oils.

 

[Lindy]

Well let's see if I can put my other foot in it on this thread. I think my first recommendation is to use pure oils such as Olive, Coconut, Canola, Grape, etc so you can get the exact SAP values. When you're dealing with a blend I think it would just be way too tricky to contemplate. For me it's my old attitude of starting the way I plan to continue so I started out using EVOO & Coconut oil then adding different oils to see what I would like and not like. So far I've enjoyed all of the soaps, some more than others, but it let me find the recipes I use for selling soaps. That's not to say don't experiment because that's how new recipes are developed....

 

[RetroactiveSoap]

Well let's see if I can put my other foot in it on this thread. I think my first recommendation is to use pure oils such as Olive, Coconut, Canola, Grape, etc so you can get the exact SAP values. When you're dealing with a blend I think it would just be way too tricky to contemplate. For me it's my old attitude of starting the way I plan to continue so I started out using EVOO & Coconut oil then adding different oils to see what I would like and not like. So far I've enjoyed all of the soaps, some more than others, but it let me find the recipes I use for selling soaps. That's not to say don't experiment because that's how new recipes are developed....

Ya, this smartblend isn't working out......Mitigated disasters are EXCELLENT learning opportunities.

2 batches of 18 bars a pop for nadda...O well.

What percentage of EVOO to Coconut oil do you prefer?

 

[Lindy]

I tend to use 75% EVOO & 25% CO....

 

[ChrissyB]

Bastille is my next soap to make, I have made Castille, and loved it, so definitelydoing Bastille next.
Lindy, I never noticed that you were a moderator before...Sorry

 

[IanT]

I tend to use 75% EVOO & 25% CO....

I use just about the same with a few other oils added into the equation either at trace or at the beinning, i love bastile

do you add any lathering agents to use (sugar/honey?)

 

[carebear]

I normally do either 100% OO or 90%OO/10% castor but tonight I made 85% OO/10% CO/5% castor with buttermilk.

I hate castiles - the wait to see just what I really truly have just kills me