New on the block - First timer today

[MissPpoodle]

I bought a cheap blender from Big W, I think it was about $20. I’ve been using it for a couple of years without any problems. I keep my braun for food. You might also be interested in watching Elly’s Everyday soap making on YouTube. That’s where I did most of my learning when I first started. She doesn’t do anything fancy but she teaches the basics very well.

Yes, I went out and bought a Kmart blender yesterday for $17 (not the cheap plastic stick $13 one haha) the $17 one has SS post, removeable, 2 speed and no screws underneath (been reading up, so knew what to look for). Have just found Elly's You Tube - thank you - I will look at them before I attempt my next batch.

Just zap tested then PH tested this first batch, and is about 7.25, and I had read that it is OK to test soap while waiting for it to dry out if it doesn't zap, so I couldn't resist. Totally AMAZING - my flop actually works, lathers up nicely rinses off without leaving oily feeling or any smell (it is no fragrance added, so that is what I was after), and I am just so chuffed. This could easily become addictive - is there a Soap Makers Annonymous just in case?

 

[KiwiMoose]

Haha - this is the closest you'll get to SMA (Soap Makers Anonymous) and we are the worst sponsors ever.
I do need to call the attention of @Zing to the use of your word 'chuffed'. He thinks it's just a word that I use - now he knows it's wider spread

 

[Sandiebrown65]

Hi Linda,
Another flamin' Aussie here. I'm from the Blue Mountains in NSW. Welcome to the forum, you will have so much support here and it is such a lovely place to be. Everyone is really friendly here.
I too have an old Bamix that I use in the kitchen. I was thinking of retiring it to the Soapery, however thanks to you I now realise that it is indeed an aluminium stick, not stainless.
This is a very addictive hobby, I just can't make enough soap lol. I have enough for a lifetime x 3 so I am thinking I might need to start getting rid of the nicer bars at the local markets.

 

[MissPpoodle]

@Sandiebrown65 Stone the Crows! Us Aussies might soon outnumber the rest . Yes, it is a good friendly forum, so 'chuffed' to be able to ask questions and not have anyone make you feel stupid for asking. I have read so much, and some things contradict others, so it will be trial and error to start for me, and lots of questions. Glad my mistake with the Bamix helped to save yours from the scrap heap.

When I first told hubby I was going to try making soap, he said 'you could make more and sell at markets'. Not too keen on the idea myself, but I looked into it a little bit anyway - seems you have to register with NICNAS Industrial Chemicals and pay yearly fees unless you use melt and pour, plus get liability insurance as a 'Manufacturer' (even for a hobby business!!), correct labelling, etc, etc. Yeah, nope don't think I will go that route.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Sandiebrown65

When I first told hubby I was going to try making soap, he said 'you could make more and sell at markets'. Not too keen on the idea myself, but I looked into it a little bit anyway - seems you have to register with NICNAS Industrial Chemicals and pay yearly fees unless you use melt and pour, plus get liability insurance as a 'Manufacturer' (even for a hobby business!!), correct labelling, etc, etc. Yeah, nope don't think I will go that route.

OMG! In Aussie too? Seems like there are rules in UK/Europe, the USA, and Aussie - but none here yet. I hope they don't come here. That's crazy - you can buy caustic soda at Bunnings to clean your drain, but you can't use it to make soap without a blasted 'licence to soap'? Ridiculous nanny-state stuff. I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out and could create harmful products - but no fair on the majority who are just trying to do our best and are being cautious and careful with our products.

 

[user 56151]

OMG! In Aussie too? Seems like there are rules in UK/Europe, the USA, and Aussie - but none here yet. I hope they don't come here. That's crazy - you can buy caustic soda at Bunnings to clean your drain, but you can't use it to make soap without a blasted 'licence to soap'? Ridiculous nanny-state stuff. I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out and could create harmful products - but no fair on the majority who are just trying to do our best and are being cautious and careful with our products.

I don’t think our laws are as harsh as some Countries. I think in the UK you have to send off samples to be tested. I have a niece in kiwi land, I might have to send my soap to her to sell. I don’t sell, my grandkids are always telling me to sell it. I’m sure I would lose more money than I’d make with the cost of insurance, packaging and labelling etc. My local chemist sells home made soap $9 for a reasonably small bar, no label or packaging. They sell out of it all the time. I pointed out to an assistant that there are laws about selling soap without ingredients etc. She told me to tell the pharmacist she makes it.

 

[MissPpoodle]

OMG! In Aussie too? Seems like there are rules in UK/Europe, the USA, and Aussie - but none here yet. I hope they don't come here. That's crazy - you can buy caustic soda at Bunnings to clean your drain, but you can't use it to make soap without a blasted 'licence to soap'? Ridiculous nanny-state stuff. I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out and could create harmful products - but no fair on the majority who are just trying to do our best and are being cautious and careful with our products.

Only if you intend to sell to public, don't need anything for home use and freebies for friends.

 

[user 56151]

Only if you intend to sell to public, don't need anything for home use and freebies for friends.

Actually you can sell it to family and friends provided you don’t make a profit. You are allowed to sell it for what it costs you to make.

 

[AliOop]

OMG! In Aussie too? Seems like there are rules in UK/Europe, the USA, and Aussie - but none here yet. I hope they don't come here. That's crazy - you can buy caustic soda at Bunnings to clean your drain, but you can't use it to make soap without a blasted 'licence to soap'? Ridiculous nanny-state stuff. I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out and could create harmful products - but no fair on the majority who are just trying to do our best and are being cautious and careful with our products.

Not too many rules here in the US as a whole, although a minority of individual states have stricter rules for soap-makers who reside (or sell) in that state only.

The big issue is the risk of being sued if something happens. That causes a lot of US soap sellers here to buy insurance, even though it is not legally required unless the seller's individual state requires it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out

Drugies use it to make Crystal Meth (if I recall correctly). It was actually taken off the shelves here for a brief period.

 

[MissPpoodle]

Actually you can sell it to family and friends provided you don’t make a profit. You are allowed to sell it for what it costs you to make.

That's interesting, have to remember that, if friends want me to make for them won't be so out of pocket.

Just found the wording on the Industrial Chemical website under who doesn't need to reg:

• make soaps and gift to family and friends or sell them for the cost of the materials only (no profit)

They have worded it a bit ambiguously, with the 'or' in the middle, you could read that as sell to anyone (at markets) for the cost of the materials only (no profit). So if you just went overboard on making soap and wanted to get your money back, you could??? (edit: just found another document, doesn't mention family/friends, just no need to register if you gift or sell for no profit! But guessing you would still have liability insurance issue.)

 

[user 56151]

That's interesting, have to remember that, if friends want me to make for them won't be so out of pocket.

Just found the wording on the Industrial Chemical website under who doesn't need to reg:

• make soaps and gift to family and friends or sell them for the cost of the materials only (no profit)

They have worded it a bit ambiguously, with the 'or' in the middle, you could read that as sell to anyone (at markets) for the cost of the materials only (no profit). So if you just went overboard on making soap and wanted to get your money back, you could??? (edit: just found another document, doesn't mention family/friends, just no need to register if you gift or sell for no profit! But guessing you would still have liability insurance issue.)

Yes I wasn’t aware of the wording, it’s quite ambiguous. I wouldn’t sell it to anyone I didn’t know without insurance. The cost to register is minimal, it’s the insurance that gets expensive. You would still need to label them with the ingredients. I give mine away, I’ve had a number of people asking to buy it. I just give it to them, I can’t be bothered working out how much it costs me to make. It would be nice to recoup some of the cost though. I could be wrong but I think the markets require you to have insurance to get a stall.

 

[Relle]

OMG! In Aussie too? Seems like there are rules in UK/Europe, the USA, and Aussie - but none here yet. I hope they don't come here. That's crazy - you can buy caustic soda at Bunnings to clean your drain, but you can't use it to make soap without a blasted 'licence to soap'? Ridiculous nanny-state stuff. I know it's there to stop the mavericks who go all out and could create harmful products - but no fair on the majority who are just trying to do our best and are being cautious and careful with our products.

I've had no problem buying caustic at bunnings and usually get it at Coles. I don't go in buying a trolley load though.

Yes I wasn’t aware of the wording, it’s quite ambiguous. I wouldn’t sell it to anyone I didn’t know without insurance. The cost to register is minimal, it’s the insurance that gets expensive. You would still need to label them with the ingredients. I give mine away, I’ve had a number of people asking to buy it. I just give it to them, I can’t be bothered working out how much it costs me to make. It would be nice to recoup some of the cost though. I could be wrong but I think the markets require you to have insurance to get a stall.

Most markets require you to have your own public liability insurance, but there are some markets that have their own public liability insurance and you can pay extra for them to cover you for that market day under theirs. That adds up on your costs for the day.

 

[MissPpoodle]

With insurance, I wasn't referring to just Market Insurance, which is the insurance if someone trips at your stall or hurts themselves because of your stall.

I was referring to Product Liability Insurance - if someone uses your product and it causes harm. So this needs to be ongoing insurance, as your soap may not be used for some time.

The only insurance a Market will give (if they offer any) will be for personal injury on the day.

I only know this because we have a business (not soap!) and we occasionally sell at markets, and I have to keep my public and product liability insurance current.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Regarding the 'dangerous chemical handling' I think it's silly that you can buy the exact same product to clean your drain BUT you can't make soap (to sell) with it unless you have registered with NICCAS, AND YET you can make soap to use yourself or gift (no profit). there seems to be no logic to it at all. It's not an insurance , it's purely a registration that says "I am using lye to make soap that i am making a profit from".
Regarding public liability insurance (for market stalls) - there is no requirement for that in NZ as we have the 'Accident Compensation Corporation' which is covered by everyone's taxes to pay out for any accidents that occur anywhere. I though Aussie had similar?
For personal liability ( should your product cause someone harm), I guess some people might take that out for themselves as a small business owner, but I've never heard of it as being commonplace. It's rare that anyone would sue as we don't have a suing culture. The most they would do is complain and leave negative feedback somewhere. The best you could do as a soap maker is to offer them their money back and apologise.
As a (what I would call) 'responsible' soap maker, I make a genuine product which I test on myself, make sure I follow guidelines on creating a safe product, list all the ingredients on my packaging so people can make an informed decision about what they are buying and thus avoid any allergens, and I don't make any claims about purported 'healing properties' of my ingredients. Customers will do that all by themselves because they already believe that aloe is healthy, certain herbs are healing, oats are good for the skin etc.

 

[MissPpoodle]

Regarding the 'dangerous chemical handling' I think it's silly that you can buy the exact same product to clean your drain BUT you can't make soap (to sell) with it unless you have registered with NICCAS, AND YET you can make soap to use yourself or gift (no profit). there seems to be no logic to it at all. It's not an insurance , it's purely a registration that says "I am using lye to make soap that i am making a profit from".
Regarding public liability insurance (for market stalls) - there is no requirement for that in NZ as we have the 'Accident Compensation Corporation' which is covered by everyone's taxes to pay out for any accidents that occur anywhere. I though Aussie had similar?
For personal liability ( should your product cause someone harm), I guess some people might take that out for themselves as a small business owner, but I've never heard of it as being commonplace. It's rare that anyone would sue as we don't have a suing culture. The most they would do is complain and leave negative feedback somewhere. The best you could do as a soap maker is to offer them their money back and apologise.
As a (what I would call) 'responsible' soap maker, I make a genuine product which I test on myself, make sure I follow guidelines on creating a safe product, list all the ingredients on my packaging so people can make an informed decision about what they are buying and thus avoid any allergens, and I don't make any claims about purported 'healing properties' of my ingredients. Customers will do that all by themselves because they already believe that aloe is healthy, certain herbs are healing, oats are good for the skin etc.

The Chemical Handling, so they say, is to keep you up to date and informed of any changes in regulations, so you have to be on their register (it is only $75/yr for small business - goes up for larger turnover), so it isn't that bad.

We definitely don't have an Accident Comp Corp over here - wish we did! It would help out the poor people who get put in hospital when they get hit by rogue electric scooter riders who aren't covered under the hirer's policy if they are riding where they shouldn't (footpath). But you usually only have to pay an extra $5 for market stall cover for the day, and you can get yearly self cover for around $200.

It isn't mandatory to get product liability insurance if you don't want to BUT, all it takes is one wise ass to claim your soap caused some life threatening rash (or something else stupid) and you could be taken to court and lose everything you own, so not worth the risk in my opinion.

No-one would dare make claims about healing properties of soap, as if you do, you have to register with the Theraputic mob and have your products tested and certified that they meet the claims.

Sounds like you have it really good in NZ.

All that aside - I have just finished mixing my 2nd batch - and everything went exactly as it should have (I think).

 

[user 56151]

Regarding the 'dangerous chemical handling' I think it's silly that you can buy the exact same product to clean your drain BUT you can't make soap (to sell) with it unless you have registered with NICCAS, AND YET you can make soap to use yourself or gift (no profit). there seems to be no logic to it at all. It's not an insurance , it's purely a registration that says "I am using lye to make soap that i am making a profit from".
Regarding public liability insurance (for market stalls) - there is no requirement for that in NZ as we have the 'Accident Compensation Corporation' which is covered by everyone's taxes to pay out for any accidents that occur anywhere. I though Aussie had similar?
For personal liability ( should your product cause someone harm), I guess some people might take that out for themselves as a small business owner, but I've never heard of it as being commonplace. It's rare that anyone would sue as we don't have a suing culture. The most they would do is complain and leave negative feedback somewhere. The best you could do as a soap maker is to offer them their money back and apologise.
As a (what I would call) 'responsible' soap maker, I make a genuine product which I test on myself, make sure I follow guidelines on creating a safe product, list all the ingredients on my packaging so people can make an informed decision about what they are buying and thus avoid any allergens, and I don't make any claims about purported 'healing properties' of my ingredients. Customers will do that all by themselves because they already believe that aloe is healthy, certain herbs are healing, oats are good for the skin etc.

 

[user 56151]

I agree with everything you said. i would never risk selling something that could potentially cause harm to anyone without insurance. I always ask anyone I give soap to if they are allergic to anything, I don’t package or label my soaps as I give them away and don’t need the extra cost. I would be interested to know if anyone has ever been sued, I suspect not. I send 5 kilos of soap to my sister every couple of months, she gives some to her friends. I’ve told her she must ask if they are allergic to anything. Her husband has a niece who has a nut allergy so she knows not to put my soap in the bathroom when she visits.