New needs help with a shaving soap recipe?

[spacetransient]

I would try the butter recipe with 15% glycerine - best of both worlds!

Well, since you have likely been there and done that already I will take the encouragement as good advice! (Like steering me to the original recipe/Songwind thread- Thanks again!!)

I have been wanting to substitute the Shea for Mango and see what happens. Shea has been good for my skin but I am inexperienced with the other butters and the Mango has been recommended by other soap makers as good for the shavers.

What's your take on that Craig? Leave out the lanolin and just go full 15% glycerin and 7.5% mango after trace?

 

[spacetransient]

Sounds like you are narrowing in on something you will like.

Not so sure Lee-
I still have 2lbs of tallow to soap! (and thanks for the lanolin and butter advice after trace)
Methinks I have much more experimenting to do. When supplies get low I may force myself to stick with something.

Until then I feel like a kid in a candy shop!!:grin:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

.......
What's your take on that Craig? Leave out the lanolin and just go full 15% glycerin and 7.5% mango after trace?

I would try it all! 15% glycerin with mango butter. Then again with lanolin in there, too. As Lee says, you'll start to get a feel for what really works wonders on your skin

 

[LBussy]

Also ... and this will fall on deaf ears as it did with me: If you CAN, try changing one thing at a time. Statisticians can infer results by changing multiples but we're not them.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That is a very good point indeed

 

[spacetransient]

Also ... and this will fall on deaf ears as it did with me: If you CAN, try changing one thing at a time. Statisticians can infer results by changing multiples but we're not them.

The temptation is always there to do too much and loose sight of the contributions each change makes to the whole and then how to correct or improve. :?: I get it.

Ok- Mango substitution alone for the Shea next. Then I will try increasing the glycerin amount to 15% in the follow-up mix and use whichever butter I think is working the best. Then remove the lanolin from whichever of those mixes I like the best and report back. (Best guess Sunday evening).

After choosing the best of those batches it's on to your suggested tallow recipe the following week. The P.160 soap you like as a reference is in.:smile:

Thanks again Lee and Craig for following up.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

More than welcome - I am also getting a lot of this thread and other discussions about shaving soaps. Besides, talking about shaving soap basically combines two of my great loves together. I can't get enough.

 

[spacetransient]

Next Batch Complete!

Mango was substituted for Shea butter (again after trace) - recipe was otherwise unchanged for one cup-

Then I added 7.5% more glycerine to the next cup (1/2 the total) to bring it up to a full 15% glycerin as was typical with this recipe. The soap was getting harder to mix at this point so stretching and air effects were noted. The mix got noticeably whiter and the glycerine caused a bit of foaming with the soap which died down with continued mixing. I do not think the added glycerin was mixed as homogeneously with the soap as I would like but I think it did well enough.

Shave testing will begin tomorrow...

And as a side note I had my very first fragrance oil reaction from soap! This was from the well regarded Italian Barber: P.160 shaving soap. Being a newbie soap maker it did not even occur to me to taste test the stuff to see if it was surplus lye I was reacting to instead but regardless I will need something else for comparison.

It was likely a histamine reaction because each time the effect was worse than before- three times in total with three different brushes. First time I just thought I had a touch of razor burn from the razor I was using- The second time I knew something was wrong during the shave but pressed on to completion. Third time I used a good, freshly cleaned synthetic brush (to eliminate thoughts of potential soap residues reacting with one another) just to see if that would make a difference; but my eyes began watering and my face turned red immediately and felt like a sunburn. Rinsing completely I used the soap I had made last week with the lanolin and Shea Butter and managed a complete shave despite the irritation. I think the lanolin and butter did make a difference after this extreme example. But I was still red for an hour longer.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Sorry to hear about the reaction. Glad it worked out with the shave though.

I have to ask - why add the butter at trace?

 

[LBussy]

We generally only hear about bad things, so take this with a grain of salt, but a reaction to almond essential oils (P.160, Cella) is not uncommon to hear about. Medical texts would put it in the 1-2% range I think, but who knows for sure. I am sorry to hear about it though because that's one fine soap. If you liked it aside from that, the XXX is a very good one, sort of an Aqua di Parma fragrance:

http://www.italianbarber.com/razorock-xxx-italian-shaving-soap

There's no reason to put the glycerin in late. I put it in my oils as they are melting.

If you are looking to retain a larger portion of the mango for the moisturizing (leaving it in the superfat) what I do is mix the SF in with the fragrances after the cook. Mixing it in at trace is just more work.

 

[LBussy]

I forgot to mention: It is generally very easy to find someone to buy the soap if you can;t use it. B&B has a gentleman's sale area available for that sort of thing.

 

[spacetransient]

Sorry to hear about the reaction. Glad it worked out with the shave though.

I have to ask - why add the butter at trace?

That I thought was Lee's suggestion and interpreted it as being used for skin conditioning as a superfat- correct me if I am wrong.

The glycerine was added after trace on the second 1/2 of the same batch for experimental convenience. I just wanted the same recipe with more glycerin without starting from scratch.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That I thought was Lee's suggestion and interpreted it as being used for skin conditioning as a superfat- correct me if I am wrong.

The glycerine was added after trace on the second 1/2 of the same batch for experimental convenience. I just wanted the same recipe with more glycerin without starting from scratch.

You need to add things after the cook if you want it to avoid the lye. Adding at trace means it is still reacting with the lye for pretty much the same amount of time as the rest of the oils - but after the cook, all of the lye is away which leaves your superfat as a fat.

 

[spacetransient]

There's no reason to put the glycerin in late. I put it in my oils as they are melting.

If you are looking to retain a larger portion of the mango for the moisturizing (leaving it in the superfat) what I do is mix the SF in with the fragrances after the cook. Mixing it in at trace is just more work.

Please explain the difference- "mix...after the cook vs. at trace...more work"? Once the stearic is added it traces very fast there is no more cook time per se. I have been splitting up the cook to CO first then the SA last. Plus I thought adding after trace would insure it as non-reacted SF.

Would it be easier and give me a little more 'cook' time to add the CO, SA and glycerin at the same time then wait for trace to begin to add everything else- fragrance, lanolin/SF?

 

[LBussy]

Trace happens fact to be sure, and with SA it get's pretty thick pretty quick, but it's not done reacting. It takes about 30 mins for it to "cook" and I cook mine for 2 hours to reduce the water content. At that time it is like stiff mashed potatoes and that's when I mix in my superfats and fragrance.

I put all of the fats (minus the superfat) + glycerin in the crock pot, melt, then add the lye. I cook for 2 hrs then add SF and fragrance.

 

[spacetransient]

I forgot to mention: It is generally very easy to find someone to buy the soap if you can;t use it. B&B has a gentleman's sale area available for that sort of thing.

That's going back to the one who loaned me the Synergy Soap I am using as one (vegan) reference. The XXX and 'for Chicago' were both recommended tallow recipe's from Italian Barber. It's just that price plus shipping goes higher than I would like- over my $3/ounce rule but I will troll around for the best deal on one of the two-
I take comparisons seriously and appreciate your input.

Thanks again Lee.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I haven't cooked a full size batch of shaving soap yet, so I don't know the timings involved, but Lee has it all there.

Adding something at trace doesn't help, I am sorry to say. When the soap stops zapping, all the lye has reacted with oils/fats (acids) and is gone. This is not at trace - at trace, lye is still active and WILL react with your butter.

My process is: melt the oils and make the lye solution. Mix the two together and stir until it is nice and thick. ((At this point, it would still zap me, lye is still in there)) I then heat this until it stops zapping ((all the lye is cooked away)) and then add in my other ingredients, such as a superfat and EOs.

 

[LBussy]

That's going back to the one who loaned me the Synergy Soap I am using as one (vegan) reference. The XXX and 'for Chicago' were both recommended tallow recipe's from Italian Barber. It's just that price plus shipping goes higher than I would like- over my $3/ounce rule but I will troll around for the best deal on one of the two

Tell ya what - I think there are so many better examples out there than Synergy ... send me your name and address in a PM and I'll send you a sample of a good vegan and some of a good tallow. I'm pretty sure I have a tub of XXX somewhere.

 

[spacetransient]

Tell ya what - I think there are so many better examples out there than Synergy ... send me your name and address in a PM and I'll send you a sample of a good vegan and some of a good tallow. I'm pretty sure I have a tub of XXX somewhere.

Great Lee!!!

 

[spacetransient]

It takes about 30 mins for it to "cook" and I cook mine for 2 hours to reduce the water content. At that time it is like stiff mashed potatoes and that's when I mix in my superfats and fragrance.

What is the advantage of removing water from the soap? Especially in such a labor intensive way that surely this must be if we occasionally stir like a sauce?

Wouldn't fans or freeze drying be easier and just as/more energy efficient- that requires little or no oversight? We could adjust the water content just as precisely by timing and for that matter using a moisture meter for accuracy.