New needs help with a shaving soap recipe?

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I am with you both on this - my old batch with +7% glycerin is one thing but when I compare my +15% glycerine soaps to it, they seem super thirsty. The fact that it could have been the glycerine hadn't occurred to me

 

[boyago]

So it's all still very personal. I know at least one person who thinks wetter soap is "too messy" and he prefers his "okay" soap that will give a passable shave with less water. I guess people need to do what they think they need to do. I prefer to add all the water a soap can handle, and I'll experiment to find what that is before I try shaving with it.

I believe all this talk about moisturizing is a moot point if you don't have the water in there to begin with. Oils/butters/fats can help seal in skin moisture, but if you've not got enough water at the start it's a loser's game.

Hey Bussy can you explain your technique for lathering up a little more? I'm picturing loading up a brush after a soak, using a lather bowl and flicking additional water from the brush while working in the bowl?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Not Lee, but I soak my brush, lather up on the puck until the proto-lather is really creamy, pour all the wetness from the soap container in my bowl and then start to work the lather. I add in water a few drops at a time, taking it from the sink and dribbling it in with my fingers - I keep working and adding water until it is smooth. If shaving with a straight razor, I do it for longer until it is soaking wet

 

[LBussy]

Hey Bussy can you explain your technique for lathering up a little more? I'm picturing loading up a brush after a soak, using a lather bowl and flicking additional water from the brush while working in the bowl?

That down there ....

Not Lee, but I soak my brush, lather up on the puck until the proto-lather is really creamy, pour all the wetness from the soap container in my bowl and then start to work the lather. I add in water a few drops at a time, taking it from the sink and dribbling it in with my fingers - I keep working and adding water until it is smooth. If shaving with a straight razor, I do it for longer until it is soaking wet

That's pretty much it. I have a silvertip badger so it holds a lot of water. I soak for a few mins, give it a mild shake so water doesn't fly all over the place while I load. I lightly load for 30 secs and then to the bowl. I work for about 30 secs then start adding a few dribbles of water and working it in.

If you use a thinner badger or a boar you will need to add more water. Get it to where the"stiff peaks" turn to "soft peaks." Ideally, test and keep adding till it completely falls apart and when you shave use just a touch less. If you don't know what I mean by stiff peaks and soft peaks ... well here:

The difference between our soap and egg whites will be we add water past stiff peaks, and with egg whites soft peaks is a stage on the way to stiff peaks. Another way to describe it is "yogurty".

 

[JustBeachy]

So Lee or Craig, probably more to Lee, since he's here in the states. Give me some brands of good to great shave soaps I can purchase in stores. I see some listed at Sephora, Art of shaving, Jack Black. Or if you have any other suggestions. I'd rather not have to wait for an online purchase, but if this is the only way to get a good one, let me know. The idea is to get some quality, store bought soap to use as a comparison to my home made soaps.

Not sure why this just dawned on me, but seeing how I haven't wet shaved in years, I have no real baseline to work off of. Besides songwinds recipe.

 

[boyago]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Beachy- since the more experienced dudes seem to be away at the moment if your check out the BargerandBlade site they have pretty extensive reviews if you see something locally you want to check out before buying. I have been grabbing pucks when I run into them and they aren't too expensive or lame looking. Also I wanted a decent soap to compare mine to and put the Proraso shave soap on my list and got it for xmass. So far I like my newbie sophmoric soap best.

 

[LBussy]

Best value for a tallow soap:

http://www.italianbarber.com/p160-special-shaving-soap-by-razorock-10

I think P.160 is very likely the best value in shaving soap available period quite honestly.

Tabac is a very good soap however a bit more expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GHYXG4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The fragrance of it takes some getting used to but it's a benchmark for a smooth shave.

 

[boyago]

Nevermind, Lee saw the symbol.

 

[JustBeachy]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Beachy- since the more experienced dudes seem to be away at the moment if your check out the BargerandBlade site they have pretty extensive reviews if you see something locally you want to check out before buying. I have been grabbing pucks when I run into them and they aren't too expensive or lame looking. Also I wanted a decent soap to compare mine to and put the Proraso shave soap on my list and got it for xmass. So far I like my newbie sophmoric soap best.

I appreciate it Boyago. I had sorta the same idea, but then when I was out shopping I realized, I could buy some of the different soaps I found, but wouldn't really know if I should be using them as a comparison.

Best value for a tallow soap:

http://www.italianbarber.com/p160-special-shaving-soap-by-razorock-10

I think P.160 is very likely the best value in shaving soap available period quite honestly.

Tabac is a very good soap however a bit more expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GHYXG4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The fragrance of it takes some getting used to but it's a benchmark for a smooth shave.

Thanks I'll try both of them.

 

[spacetransient]

Best value for a tallow soap:

http://www.italianbarber.com/p160-special-shaving-soap-by-razorock-10

I think P.160 is very likely the best value in shaving soap available period quite honestly.

Tabac is a very good soap however a bit more expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GHYXG4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The fragrance of it takes some getting used to but it's a benchmark for a smooth shave.

And it looks like they both use the basic recipe you like best: SA, CO, Tallow combination

I went on line and purchased some tallow per your recommendations. I will let you know how the mixes turn out after I get all the revised ingredients/crock pot plus some extra time. And I appreciate your listing available retail soaps for comparison.

How much better is the P.160 over something like Proraso Green? Costs 50% more- But I guess diminishing returns is the best reason to make our own if we "value" a great product.

Thanks again Lee!

 

[LBussy]

And it looks like they both use the basic recipe you like best: SA, CO, Tallow combination

Funny how that works out.

I went on line and purchased some tallow per your recommendations. I will let you know how the mixes turn out after I get all the revised ingredients/crock pot plus some extra time. And I appreciate your listing available retail soaps for comparison.

You don't really end up using much tallow really. I have done a couple batches with Lard as well (my bar soaps are made with lard). I have not done side by side comparisons with lard vs tallow ... there's a psychological hump to get over with lard, I'll admit it I am as flawed as the next person.

How much better is the P.160 over something like Proraso Green? Costs 50% more- But I guess diminishing returns is the best reason to make our own if we "value" a great product.

I see P.160 direct from Italian Barber at $7.99 for 125 ml (4.2 oz) and the Proraso Green for $6.99 for 75 ml (2.5 oz) although currently on sale for $5.49. That makes the P.160 $0.07 / gram and the Proraso $0.10 / gram ($0.08 / gram on sale) so the P.160 is a better value.

Razorock (Italian Barber is the same company) contracts the RR soap line from Italy so the P.160 is materially similar to the original P.160 Italian soap, and you see similarities in a lot of them. Proraso is another Italian soap however it lacks the tallow and does have a lot of other "things" going on that makes it a very different experience, Menthol is one. I like menthol, but the combination of menthol and no tallow I find to be a little stark for my taste.

It's all very personal of course, but since you asked. I look forward to hearing your thoughts once you try them. Personally I find the Tabac to be about the slickest thing out there (when you use enough water). If it wasn't for that odd scent I would probably stick with it.

 

[spacetransient]

Newb does New Year w/suds!

Thanks for all the help and support.

It looks like my (our) first soap run is a success!! How do I know?
Zap test- negative
Shave test POSITIVE!

Mix:
65/35 KOH/NaOH
55% SA
45% CO
1 Tbls glycerin after trace
No FO
150 gram mix

Before the soap had even cooled I went to the bathroom, gave my brush a spin and lathered up:
1) Very easy lather- no "work" at all
2) Lather was reasonably dense and stable
3) No distinguishing odor- but I am a little stuffy in the nose right now.

1st impressions:
95 for slip
90 cushion
80-85 conditioning- slight irritation/skin tightness

but otherwise a close, comfortable shave. Without question this is a great recipe to tweak!

Roughly compares to the Synergy Shaving Soap mentioned at the beginning used as a reference; just a reversal of attributes. Conditioners are already here so I will make up another batch soon with 5% lanolin & 5%Shea after trace as superfat and reduce the glycerine by 1/2 (1/2 Tbl-7.5%) to see how that works for my shave tomorrow. If that goes well I will reduce the CO by 5% and add 5% Castor oil and so on.

Eventually the tallow will arrive and I can start on another comparison. This is just tooo much fun!!! Thanks again everyone!!!!! Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!~


Comments on procedures: I weighed out everything ahead of time and placed them in the small plastic containers w/labels. Weighing requires conversion of ounces to grams as well as proportions to my 150 gr. total to fill these two 2-1/2" x 1-1/2" containers (which worked out nicely).

Separated my oil and stearic acid. Added the KOH/NaOH to cold water, placed oil in crockpot and mixed in lye at about 143 degrees (low I know). Mixed with stirring spoon.I could not see any changes (none expected) but being new I used my hand mixer too-

So after about 10min more mixing (which I probably did not need to do) I figured go for it and added the SA. Wow- fast change to trace- thickened almost immediately. After 3 more minutes of stirring I added the glycerine, stirred three more minutes then taste tested- zap free.

This is just too simple something must be wrong so without further to do I spooned the contents into their rightful containers as seen below:
then proceeded to my sink, then brush then blade. :smile:

 

[LBussy]

Congratulations on your success! The shea and lanolin will help. Are you opposed to using tallow (or lard)? I think that will make a nice conditioning lather for you. I've not found any need for castor oil in my shaving soap.

SA needs about 155 to melt, I melt it in my CO just to be sure it's hot enough then stir in the lye. No need to make it more fiddly than it needs to be.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Very cool! I found the higher co soaps to be lower conditioning (makes sense of course) but yours will get better over time in that regard

 

[spacetransient]

Congratulations on your success! The shea and lanolin will help. Are you opposed to using tallow (or lard)? I think that will make a nice conditioning lather for you. I've not found any need for castor oil in my shaving soap.

SA needs about 155 to melt, I melt it in my CO just to be sure it's hot enough then stir in the lye. No need to make it more fiddly than it needs to be.

Thanks Lee-
I have no problem using tallow- it just offends the vegetarians!:sick: I am sure that marketing aspect is more important to the professional soap makers than me.:think: I will do as you suggest- like I said, the tallow (2 lbs- best bang for the buck I could find) is on the way. I even ordered a cake of the P.160 to use for comparison.

But I will still try to do my best to equal a tallow based soap with a vegetable based recipe- perhaps one w/milk just for comparison. Always nice to know what we are gaining or giving up with each recipe.

 

[spacetransient]

Very cool! I found the higher co soaps to be lower conditioning (makes sense of course) but yours will get better over time in that regard

Thanks Craig-

I figured as much so I am saving all my cakes to try at various intervals. Shaved with the second batch this morning and the lanolin/shea butter combo helped- but seemed a step back on slip.

 

[spacetransient]

2nd Batch results:

So in the second batch I reduced the glycerin by half (to 1/2 tbl in 150g of soap) but added in 2-1/2% lanolin and 5% Shea Butter.

This morning I shaved with it and everything was pretty much to expectations:

Slip- Less slip than the original Songwind recipe but almost a 90/100
Cushion- more cushion than the original but that is somewhat deceiving as the
lather was a little more creamy/dense with the added fats/oil and less glycerin. I have a psychological bias to denser suds= better cushion.
90+/100
Conditioning: without question superior. 90+/100

All in all I "liked" this recipe a little better than the original, mostly due to the added conditioning oil+butter lending a better over-all shave balance. It will need a FO for sure though- mildly disagreeable 'grease' smell without one.

And we will see how age matures the characteristics of each cake I save.

 

[spacetransient]

2nd Batch Pic's

So my previous upload attempt seems to have failed- hear are the pics of the new batch (yawn)- not much different than before but with a yellow cast to them. The rear tub is the original recipe with foreground as newest.

 

[LBussy]

Sounds like you are narrowing in on something you will like.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would try the butter recipe with 15% glycerine - best of both worlds!