My first soaping disaster...

[Nate5700]

Well, I've mentioned in a couple of other threads that I was trying a shaving soap tonight. Recipe as follows:

5.8 oz Stearic Acid (51.8%)
4.8 oz Coconut Oil (42.9%)
0.6 oz Shea Butter (5.4%)
0.5 oz Powdered Goat Milk
1.7 oz Glycerin
0.3 oz Almond FO
2.3 oz Lye (All KOH, 8.4% discount)
11 oz Water

So this was a few firsts for me. First time using stearic acid, first time using KOH, first time hot process. What could go wrong?

A lot, actually.

Everything was going swimmingly at first. Measured my oils and got them melting in the Crock Pot. Made the lye water solution. Finished melting the oils, added the goat milk, got it stirred in well, then added the lye. Blended to trace and then put the lid on to let it cook. I was planning on a 1.5 hour cook time, Crock Pot on high, with 15 minute checks.

As it started to cook, it turned a burnt orange color from the goat milk. Not unexpected.

So I head off to the other room. Soon my 15 minute alarm goes off. I figure I might have to stir a bit.

The soap has solidified into an orange disc sitting in the center of the Crock Pot, and is making a nice sizzling sound. Panic.

I immediately splash some water in and go at it with my whisk to try to get it mixed in. Whisk clogs up quickly with soap-paste, so I switch to my spatula and start to fold the water in. Add water, fold, add water fold. It starts to foam a bit and is getting softer. At this point I do a zap test, and there is no zap. This is about 30 minutes after I started the cook. I turn off the Crock Pot.

So at probably an hour after I started the cook, I finally have the soap to a "hard mashed potatoes" sort of consistency. Not as soft as I want, but soft enough where I can think about adding the glycerin and the fragrance.

So I add the glycerin, hoping it will help soften it some more. And it's like all that water I folded in came running out of the soap and turned to foam. Ack! I start trying to get it mixed back together with spatula, whisk, and finally my hands. I can feel the soap in the water but it isn't mixing back together well. I decide that it would probably be too runny if I do manage to get it mixed. I pour the excess foam into the sink, leaving the soap-glop in the pot.

The softer soap-glop I'm actually able to get mixed up with the spatula into kind of a whip. Now it has a "creamy mashed potatoes" consistency, which was what I was hoping for. By this time it's cool enough to add the fragrance, so I do. Then I slop it into three jars with my spatula.

Since I've verified saponification is complete, and since it was foaming up so nicely (frustratingly at the time), I decide I've put too much effort into this to not try it out tonight. So I trim my full beard into a goatee, dollop some soap in my mug, wet my brush, and work up a lather.

And let me tell you, this is magnificent shaving soap. Creamy, stable lather, slick, and not drying at all. The almond in it smells awesome. I'm really looking forward to how this soap will do when it's older.

So I snatched victory from the jaws of defeat tonight, but the experience makes me realize how much I have left to learn.

 

[GlenS]

Well, I've mentioned in a couple of other threads that I was trying a shaving soap tonight. Recipe as follows:

5.8 oz Stearic Acid (51.8%)
4.8 oz Coconut Oil (42.9%)
0.6 oz Shea Butter (5.4%)
0.5 oz Powdered Goat Milk
1.7 oz Glycerin
0.3 oz Almond FO
2.3 oz Lye (All KOH, 8.4% discount)
11 oz Water

So this was a few firsts for me. First time using stearic acid, first time using KOH, first time hot process. What could go wrong?

A lot, actually.

Everything was going swimmingly at first. Measured my oils and got them melting in the Crock Pot. Made the lye water solution. Finished melting the oils, added the goat milk, got it stirred in well, then added the lye. Blended to trace and then put the lid on to let it cook. I was planning on a 1.5 hour cook time, Crock Pot on high, with 15 minute checks.

As it started to cook, it turned a burnt orange color from the goat milk. Not unexpected.

So I head off to the other room. Soon my 15 minute alarm goes off. I figure I might have to stir a bit.

The soap has solidified into an orange disc sitting in the center of the Crock Pot, and is making a nice sizzling sound. Panic.

I immediately splash some water in and go at it with my whisk to try to get it mixed in. Whisk clogs up quickly with soap-paste, so I switch to my spatula and start to fold the water in. Add water, fold, add water fold. It starts to foam a bit and is getting softer. At this point I do a zap test, and there is no zap. This is about 30 minutes after I started the cook. I turn off the Crock Pot.

So at probably an hour after I started the cook, I finally have the soap to a "hard mashed potatoes" sort of consistency. Not as soft as I want, but soft enough where I can think about adding the glycerin and the fragrance.

So I add the glycerin, hoping it will help soften it some more. And it's like all that water I folded in came running out of the soap and turned to foam. Ack! I start trying to get it mixed back together with spatula, whisk, and finally my hands. I can feel the soap in the water but it isn't mixing back together well. I decide that it would probably be too runny if I do manage to get it mixed. I pour the excess foam into the sink, leaving the soap-glop in the pot.

The softer soap-glop I'm actually able to get mixed up with the spatula into kind of a whip. Now it has a "creamy mashed potatoes" consistency, which was what I was hoping for. By this time it's cool enough to add the fragrance, so I do. Then I slop it into three jars with my spatula.

Since I've verified saponification is complete, and since it was foaming up so nicely (frustratingly at the time), I decide I've put too much effort into this to not try it out tonight. So I trim my full beard into a goatee, dollop some soap in my mug, wet my brush, and work up a lather.

And let me tell you, this is magnificent shaving soap. Creamy, stable lather, slick, and not drying at all. The almond in it smells awesome. I'm really looking forward to how this soap will do when it's older.

So I snatched victory from the jaws of defeat tonight, but the experience makes me realize how much I have left to learn.

View attachment 38090 View attachment 38091

Howdy Nate5700,
Can't say I understand the formula, yet, but congratulations on your success!

 

[Obsidian]

Glad it worked out in the end. I think your problem was the heat, next time you HP do it on low.

 

[Nate5700]

Glad it worked out in the end. I think your problem was the heat, next time you HP do it on low.

Definitely one of the things I'm considering. I read some tutorials that said to do it on high. Other possibilities:

More water: I'm not really sure how much water should be used for this type of soap. On this one I did close to 100% of the weight of the base oils, which I thought was reasonable since for a solid soap I typically do a little over 30%. Maybe the amount of water I used would work with less heat.

Add the glycerin before the cook: I noticed that once I added the glycerin everything sort of broke apart. The mixture became much softer, but then I had my soap-glop sitting in a bunch of water that previously was mixed into the soap. If I have the glycerin mixed in before the cook, maybe that won't happen.

Any more experienced soapers that can chime in, I'd definitely appreciate any feedback.

Howdy Nate5700,
Can't say I understand the formula, yet, but congratulations on your success!

Well thank you. As far as the formula, I posted a thread in the liquid/cream soap forum with a lot of questions. @DeeAnna in particular was very helpful in helping me work it out, and I had some examples to look at. You might peruse that thread ("Cream Soap Questions and Possible Experiment") and see what you learn.

 

[earlene]

Not all Crock Pots are created equal. And older crock pots are known to have some heating issues, in that the heating elements tend to heat the insert somewhat unevenly. So, even if one person's crock pot works fine on high, other's may not.

I tend to only use high until my hard oils begin to melt, then I turn the crock to medium or low, which on the crock pot I use for making soap is the 8-10 hour setting. It's pretty old, about 15-20 years old, but on high I got some pretty exciting volcanoes.

 

[Nate5700]

Not all Crock Pots are created equal. And older crock pots are known to have some heating issues, in that the heating elements tend to heat the insert somewhat unevenly. So, even if one person's crock pot works fine on high, other's may not.

I tend to only use high until my hard oils begin to melt, then I turn the crock to medium or low, which on the crock pot I use for making soap is the 8-10 hour setting. It's pretty old, about 15-20 years old, but on high I got some pretty exciting volcanoes.

My Crock Pot isn't that old, maybe 4 or 5 years old. It has "high", "low", and "warm" settings, I think "low" is the 8-10 hour setting. That's the setting I use to make pulled pork.

I think the stearic acid never would have melted on low, so it makes sense to melt on high and then switch to low. I still wonder if I need to up the water some too though.

All in all it could have been worse, I'm sure glad it didn't volcano on me. Sounds messy.

 

[Rune]

It's been a while since I did hot process, but I find it very easy to use the high temperature hot process method. It is a great method, really fast, but it is more violent than boiling on low in a crockpot. You will get volcanoes (you want them to happen), so you must be prepared and you must have a big enough pot to allow volcanoes and you must never walk away from your pot. If you are prepared and ready for some volcanic action (you will stir them down, so don't worry too much), then the soap will cook in the matter of minutes instead of hours. If you want to try that method, you must watch Youtube videos so you know what to expect, or you can end up with a big volcano all over your counter. But it is a great method and especially great for impatient people. The temperature is also high enough for stearic acid to melt.

 

[earlene]

Yes, very messy, but I ended up with a very clean work table after the clean-up. I was impressed with the soap, but sure learned my lesson not to leave it on high and walk away for even 15 minutes.

 

[Rune]

Or maybe the high temperature method is not so great for shaving soap after all. I see from a video by Shalebrook Handcrafted Soap that it can volcano very violently because of the stearic acid.

 

[Nate5700]

Well bad news everyone. I came home from work and my shaving soap has gone from "creamy mashed potatoes" to "thin pancake batter". It has totally liquefied in a matter of hours. I am dumbfounded. I don't even know where to begin in asking how this happened. Anyone?

 

[Obsidian]

I generally melt my oils in the microwave then add to the crock. I don't have the patience to wait for oils to melt in a crock. If I remember right, when I did shaving soap I set water on % of oil at 40%.

Adding the glycerin up front definitely makes it easier to mix in. I generally add everything up front except scent

 

[Nate5700]

Not being one who gives up easily, I think I may have saved this soap (again). Time will tell.

In my thread in the liquid soap forum where I was asking about cream soaps, I asked @DeeAnna "what is the purpose of the supercream?" She responded that unsaponified stearic acid is added to thicken, like one would add it to thicken a lotion.

Well my understanding was that you didn't generally supercream a shave soap. And last night the soap was certainly thick enough. But being that my soap was barely thicker than water when I got home, I figured I didn't have much to lose. So I poured the liquid soap into my pot that I use for cold process and turned the burner on low just to get it a little warm. Microwaved 0.5 oz stearic acid until it was melted, then added it to the soap and stirred. Very quickly I was back to "hard mashed potatoes". Dash of glycerin, dash of water, some hard stirring, and I was back at "creamy mashed potatoes". So I rinsed out the jars and put the soap back in.

I'm hoping with the added stearic acid the soap won't melt again. I'll probably know by tomorrow morning, but at least I should be able to shave tonight.

 

[steffamarie]

When I did my shaving soap, I melted the stearic separately from the other oils. Then I mixed my KOH water into my other oils and let it come to trace. Once it traced, I added the stearic and mixed very well and it came together extremely quickly after that. Then I mixed in my melted superfat, glycerin, and scent and molded it. DeeAnna details that method in the “My first shaving soap is a success” thread which I read in its entirety before starting.

 

[Nate5700]

Well, final update on this one: I just tried shaving with it, and it's already starting to liquefy again. Moreover, the added stearic acid is very irritating, my face is beet red after using it.

I'm calling it. Time of death 7:36 PM. RIP.

Post-mortem: I'm still baffled. It makes some sense that it would liquefy with the KOH and the amount of water I used, I'm just surprised because of how hard it got in the Crock Pot. I've received some decent advice in this thread regarding heat, and @Obsidian said to use 40% water to oil, so I will reduce the water significantly and soap much cooler next time. I will likely use some NaOH in the next batch as well, though I'm uncertain of what the ratio should be. 1:5?

You don't learn things in life without failures, but I'm still miffed that this one didn't work out, for a brief moment last night I had achieved the perfect shave...

 

[Obsidian]

I really don't know why your soap failed unless it simply had too much water and/or got too hot. Next time try simple, oils, lye and water.

Not surprised adding more stearic didn't help any since its waxy, it might have caused razor burn.

Personally, I can't use any soap with high stearic, dries my skin terrible. I use high tallow in my shave soap instead. I do like adding 5% cocoa butter as sf.

You can do 90% koh, 10% naoh but I really prefer 100% koh as its easier to lather.

 

[Nate5700]

I really don't know why your soap failed unless it simply had too much water and/or got too hot. Next time try simple, oils, lye and water.

Not surprised adding more stearic didn't help any since its waxy, it might have caused razor burn.

Personally, I can't use any soap with high stearic, dries my skin terrible. I use high tallow in my shave soap instead. I do like adding 5% cocoa butter as sf.

You can do 90% koh, 10% naoh but I really prefer 100% koh as its easier to lather.

Don't think it's razor burn, the razor still glided pretty smoothly. This feels more chemical. I hope it's not still red when I go to work tomorrow...

I don't think the saponified stearic was a problem as far as drying, YMMV. I'd love to use lard though and keep the recipe similar to my bar soap recipe. But I understood from my conversation with @DeeAnna that in a cream soap the soaps from the different fatty acids would separate which is why you go with high stearic. Maybe it's the "cream" part I'm getting hung up on. If I use less water can I get a firmer soap using just KOH? I don't mean rock hard like NaOH soap, but maybe a dough-like consistency, just hard enough to keep it all together. It's just going to go in a mug after all.

 

[Obsidian]

My koh soap is soft enough I could mold it if I wanted but its firm enough I could also slice it.
In my experiance, lard does not work as good as beef tallow. Just isn't as slick or stable.

You might be right about getting hung up cream soap. For now, just focus on shave soap, cream soap is a whole different beast.

Do you happen to have any unflavored yogurt or honey? Either can be applied to your face for 10 minutes and will help sooth the redness. I like yogurt better. Plain milk or heavy cream would work too, really good if mixed with rice flour.

 

[Nate5700]

My koh soap is soft enough I could mold it if I wanted but its firm enough I could also slice it.

Sounds perfect.

In my experiance, lard does not work as good as beef tallow. Just isn't as slick or stable.

Maybe, but I don't have any beef tallow on hand and I do have lard.

Do you happen to have any unflavored yogurt or honey? Either can be applied to your face for 10 minutes and will help sooth the redness. I like yogurt better. Plain milk or heavy cream would work too, really good if mixed with rice flour.

The redness is fading already, I'll probably be fine in the morning. Thanks though!

 

[Nate5700]

Next time try simple, oils, lye and water.

Thinking about trying again. I came up with another recipe, I don't know if it's any simpler though, but it tries to incorporate some of my "lessons learned".

6.6 oz Coconut Oil (44.9%)
5.8 oz Lard (39.46%)
1.6 oz Stearic Acid (10.88%)
0.7 oz Shea Butter (4.76%)
0.7 oz Powdered Goat Milk
1.5 oz Glycerin
2.5 oz KOH/0.4 oz NaOH (7% Discount)
6 oz Water

Yeah, it still has some stearic in there but not as much. The last batch had a kind of "firmness" to the lather that I thought worked well in a shaving soap, and my hypothesis is that is related to the "waxiness" of the stearic acid. Going with a roughly 6:1 KOH to NaOH. I know you said you liked all KOH but after seeing my soap totally melt I'm a bit paranoid, even with less water. And I'm skipping the fragrance as I'm pretty miffed that I wasted some of my awesome almond fragrance in a soap that ended up not working. If this works then the almond can go in the next batch.

Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[Obsidian]

Honestly, I would leave out the milk for now. Its just another thing to go wrong and it really adds nothing to the soap.

If this batch works out for you, you can alwaya rebatch and add FO. Shave soap melts back down nicely since its soft.

Check every 5 minutes, 15 is too long if something starts to go south. Also, HP doesn't have to be cooked until zap free unless you want to use it immediately.
I usually mold mine up as soon as its it mashed potatoes instead of vaseline.