Liquid Goat Milk Soap

[ackosel]

I am relatively new to CP soapmaking (around 25 batches) and have never made liquid soap. I gave soap from one of my first batches to my sweet in-laws. My father-in-law LOVES the bar soap, but my mother-in-law asked if I could make liquid soap for her dispensers. I looked at liquid soap instructions, but the process seemed daunting and time consuming.

Fast forward nine months and I searched again for liquid soap instructions and recipes. Since I raise dairy goats, I have only ever made goat milk soap. I want to carry that on to liquid soapmaking. I found this easy-looking recipe online and wonder what experienced liquid soapmakers think of it.

https://shadyoakandsassafras.com/simple-liquid-goat-milk-soap-recipe/

It looks too easy to work. Is it worth a try for a beginner?

 

[AliOop]

Looks like a decent recipe to me. A few notes:

1. The author doesn't seem to realize that, like bar soap, you can make any LS recipe via cold process. There is nothing magic about cooking LS or bar soap; heat just speeds up saponification. Once you have measured correctly and mixed everything well, saponification will happen on its own, with or without added heat/cooking.

2. The batter will be less likely to separate if you SB past trace to the paste stage. This is quite different from how we think about bar soap, isn't it? Remember that with LS, we are making a sticky, taffy-like paste that will eventually be diluted, not a solid, pretty bar. So, going beyond trace to paste is a good thing in LS.

3. Sadly, LS takes longer to trace than bar soap, because KOH is a weaker alkali than NaOH. So, usually we try to speed up LS trace by using hot lye solution and hot oils. But as she correctly noted, you don't want to do that with GMS due to potential scorching. Another way to speed up trace is to use some glycerin in place of some water. My lye concentration is normally 20-25% with LS. For some odd reason, this recipe only uses a 36% lye concentration, which is on the high side even for bar soap, let alone LS. Low water can help it trace faster, but will also make the dilution process more lengthy and arduous, especially since we won't be using heat. So, I'd decrease the lye concentration to 25% by adding 3.2 oz glycerin after the KOH has been dissolved in the GM.

4. Another way to speed up trace is to add a couple squirts of already-diluted LS. I'd use LS made from the same recipe so as not to mess up my ingredient list.

5. I disagree with her decision not to stickblend during dilution. Cut or tear the paste into small pieces, and let it soften awhile in the water before you try blending in quick bursts. Use a tall, narrow mason jar for this; that way, it doesn't make a mess, and it definitely speeds up dilution. The bubbles will subside over a few hours. You can also spray them once or twice with alcohol to knock them down a bit, but don't go overboard with that so as not to make your LS go wonky.

6. You don't have to cure LS paste; you can dilute it immediately. I like to dilute once it is zap-free, but you don't even have to wait for that. Of course, like bar soap, LS does become milder over time, whether before or after dilution.

7. She also is a little confused about the issue of preservatives. Because there is no KOH left in the LS once saponification is complete, the fact that KOH was used in the recipe doesn't prevent stuff from growing in the LS. One of the commenters correctly noted that it is the highly alkaline environment of soap that discourages (but may not completely prevent) the microbial growth.

 

[AliOop]

Another thought: she and a fair number of commenters noted that sometimes their LS separated after dilution. They didn't understand what caused this, because other batches were just fine.

I would be willing to bet that it's too much superfat due to variances in milk fat at different times of year, or differences in lye purity, or small variances in oil measurements - or any combination thereof. Unlike bar soap, LS doesn't take well to superfatting without a solubulizer or emulsifier to hold it together. Even a .5% increase in unsaponified oils can cause separation in LS. I typically stick to 1% SF unless I know for sure that the recipe will hold at 2%. This should include the milkfat, not just the oils.

The other issue is that she apparently doesn't weigh her EOs, which is wrong on several levels. First, she should make sure she is using an amount that is skin-safe for each specific EO. Can't do that without looking it up and weighing it out.

Second, some EOs and FOs will cause LS to thin, or thicken, or separate. If she weighed her EOs carefully and kept good notes, she could probably figure out which ones might be causing her trouble.

 

[ackosel]

Oh wow, thank you for all that great information! You are a guardian angel to a beginner!

So basically, when I have to scratch my itchy trigger finger on my stick blender, I should make liquid soap instead of bar soap? Just buzz it until it's too thick to buzz? I understand there are A LOT of variables that would affect time to trace, but approximately how long are we talking? Most of my CP soap comes to trace in about 10 minutes, give or take. Would I SB the same way I do for CP, short bursts with lots of stirring, or can I just turn the blender on and have at it?

Is there any way to accurately account for the fat in the goat milk to avoid separation issues? From what I understand, goat milk fat content slowly and slightly increases throughout lactation as quantity decreases. So there's less butterfat in the milk 4 weeks into lactation than there is 4 months in. The breed of goats I raise typically has a 4% butterfat content, but like you said, that is an estimate and varies according to the time of year, diet, length of lactation, quantity of milk produced, and from animal to animal.

Is there a good place to get a nice, pure KOH? Where do you get glycerine? Would you recommend using a solubulizer or emulsifier to account for excess SF? If so (my ignorance shines!) what do I use for that and where do I get it?

I have come across several soap recipes that use teaspoon measurements instead of weight measurements for essential oils. I ALWAYS run those through an EO calculator and often find huge and potentially dangerous discrepancies in the amounts called for.

Should I dilute the LS before sending it to my mother-in-law, and just keep diluting and sending more from the same batch as she needs it? It seems more cost effective to send her the paste (we live 1,200 miles apart) and have her dilute it, but proper dilution seems like part of the art of LS making and therefore my responsibility. Is the shelf life of LS similar to that of bar soap? Are the factors that cause rancidity similar in both mediums?

As if I didn't already have enough to do, now I am beyond excited to try a batch of liquid soap! Thank you, @AliOop, for all your help! I'm no longer nervous to try making LS!

 

[DeeAnna]

"...when I have to scratch my itchy trigger finger on my stick blender, I should make liquid soap instead of bar soap? Just buzz it until it's too thick to buzz?..."

I personally don't do this because it's a good way to overheat a stick blender and ruin my good humor and patience.

Stick blend for 30 seconds or so. Stir for 5-10 minutes or so. SB again. Stir. Etc. Even walk away for a time if it's safe to do so (off heat, well covered, in a safe place away from curious critters).

Stick blending furiously isn't necessarily all that effective at forcing KOH soap to come to trace. At least that's been my experience.

 

[ackosel]

"...when I have to scratch my itchy trigger finger on my stick blender, I should make liquid soap instead of bar soap? Just buzz it until it's too thick to buzz?..."

I personally don't do this because it's a good way to overheat a stick blender and ruin my good humor and patience.

Stick blend for 30 seconds or so. Stir for 5-10 minutes or so. SB again. Stir. Etc. Even walk away for a time if it's safe to do so (off heat, well covered, in a safe place away from curious critters).

Stick blending furiously isn't necessarily all that effective at forcing KOH soap to come to trace. At least that's been my experience.

Thank you so much, @DeeAnna. So, it's looking like an hour or two or three of blending/stirring/waiting would be an appropriate amount of time to expect to be working on it? At some point, it will become too thick to SB, so that's when I should just keep stirring until it's too thick to stir, and then it's done? I'll bet 30 second bursts will satisfy my itchy trigger finger!

 

[dmcgee5034]

You will have to keep us (me!) posted on this, if you try it @ackosel - I have yet to try LS

 

[ackosel]

I have two batches of bar soap that must be made before I can try LS, and I'm not sure when I'll be able to make the time to do it all. I will certainly post about my LS adventure whenever it happens!

 

[ackosel]

I'm hoping to try my first liquid soap this weekend or next week. I have a few more questions before I dive in.

1. The specific goat milk liquid soap recipe I found online is:
60% coconut oil
30% palm oil
10% grapeseed oil
I have read repeatedly that castor oil is very nice in liquid soap. @AliOop, do you have any recommendations for adding castor oil to this recipe? From a bar soap perspective, this has a lot of coconut oil...

2. Should I set the SF at 0%? This recipe uses a 36% lye concentration. I plan to decrease that to 25% by adding glycerin as @AliOop recommended earlier in this thread. The rest of my liquid will be whole goat milk. I will calculate the estimated 4% milkfat in my fresh, raw goat milk based on information I gleaned from @DeeAnna in a different thread.

3. The recipe says to add essential oils for scent at the time of dilution. I love the scent of sweet orange, lemon and other citrus, but have not yet been successful with bar NaOH soap retaining citrus essential oils at all. Since those oils are not added to LS until after saponification, might this be an opportunity to use sweet orange essential oil? Would it be better in a blend with middle and base notes?

4. The recipe says to cover and store the completed LS paste in a glass mason jar until dilution. Should the mixing process take place in a mason jar, or should the paste be transferred to the jar after mixing? It looks like it might be kind of messy trying to transfer sticky paste to a jar, but I'm not sure I want to blend it directly in a jar...

5. My KoH is 90% purity. Will that have any bearing on the outcome of the recipe as long as I click the 90% purity box in SoapCalc?

 

[DeeAnna]

Recipe has lots of coconut oil and low on oleic acid. If you're wanting a strongly cleansing soap that might be on the thin and runny side, this recipe will be a good choice. Author probably wanted lots of fast lather and is using a high % of coconut to get that, at the expense of viscosity and mildness.

Castor increases the clarity of liquid soap if you're using the right kind of recipe. It's not detrimental to use more castor in liquid soap than you'd use for bar soap, but doesn't do much for the soap IMO other than add clarity. The use of fats like lard, palm, tallow, nut butters tends to make liquid soap cloudy, so keep that in mind.

My preference would be to set the superfat to 1% or maybe 2%, not zero. I'd honestly rather err on the side of too much superfat than too much alkali. I realize any extra superfat in the soap might separate out or make the soap cloudy, but the soap will be safe to use on the skin.

Lye concentration of 36% -- not sure why the lye solution is that concentrated for this purpose? I have not found this makes the soap batter trace faster, but less water does make the paste harder to stir and dilute. If this were my project, I'd stick with 25% lye concentration (3:1 water:lye ratio).

Add scent to the diluted soap, not to the paste after saponification. I typically use maybe 0.5% to 1% scent. Don't expect EOs to behave any differently in liquid soap than they do in bar soap, however. Citrus is gonna fade either way.

You can store paste in any container that is compatible with soap. Some people store paste in a glass jar, sure, but a plastic container (recycle code #2 or #5) works fine too -- or even a zipper-top plastic bag for the most compact storage. Regardless of the container, you can refrigerate the paste and only dilute a portion as needed. Also the paste is handy for household cleaning, like dishes and cleaning the shower.

Dilute in whatever container you prefer to use. Just make it big enough to contain the diluted soap. Yes, soap paste is sticky, but once it cools, it's not as bad as it is when hot.

90% KOH is fine as long as you compensate for the purity.

 

[AliOop]

Looks like @DeeAnna covered most of your questions, @ackosel. I concur with her suggestion to use a 25% lye concentration to make the paste. It's much too hard to stir otherwise, and it will also be harder/slower to dilute.

Plus, the math is so easy with 25%. I use 1 part KOH dissolved in 1 part distilled water, then stir in 2 parts glycerin. The glycerin helps the batter to trace faster, and adds humectant properties to the final product.

Definitely 60% CO is on the high side, and I do like castor in LS, so I'd probably adjust that recipe to something like:

30% CO
30% Castor oil
20% Palm oil
20% OO or other HO liquid oil

There is lots of room for play in those ratios. If you know you like OO in LS, or don't have lots of castor on hand, then put the OO at 30% and the castor at 20%.

Since I have not used goat milk to make a liquid soap, I don't have any specific tips related to that, and I'll be quite interested to hear how that goes for you.

PS - I do make my LS at 0%SF, and so far, it's not been lye heavy, probably because my KOH isn't quite at 90% purity. But using 1-2% is probably safest for a first batch.

 

[ackosel]

Ooooh, thank you both so much! I have no idea what I like and don't like in liquid soap, so I'm going to go with your recipe recommendation, @AliOop. I think I will split the liquid in half between goat milk and glycerin. I did the milk fat/superfat math, @DeeAnna, but still feel like I'm guessing. My best guess is that the approximate 4% milkfat in the goat milk will bring the SF up to about 1.5%, so I'll set it at 1% (including 1.38% Milk Fat in my oils) and hope for the best. Going to try and make time to do this tomorrow!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Another thing I see people doing is making huge batches of liquid soap paste without testing the recipe first to see if they like it.

If the recipe is new to you, think about making a batch with around 300 g total fats. That will dilute into plenty of liquid soap to use and test.

 

[ackosel]

Another thing I see people doing is making huge batches of liquid soap paste without testing the recipe first to see if they like it.

If the recipe is new to you, think about making a batch with around 300 g total fats. That will dilute into plenty of liquid soap to use and test.

Thank you! I printed off my recipe for 500 grams. If I reduce the batch size to 300 grams, do I have to refigure the milkfat? Because it went into the calculator as a percentage, I should just be able to use that 1.38% in a resized batch, correct? I'm embarrassed at how math-challenged I am!

 

[DeeAnna]

Percentages are independent of the total batch size. So, yes, you'd still use 1.38% for a different sized batch.

 

[ackosel]

I think it turned out - so far!

 

[ackosel]

Using EoCalc to figure safe usage rates for liquid soap, do I use the weight of the paste, or the weight after dilution?

Also, I've read other posts that specify the need for an emulsifier in order to keep essential oils from separating in liquid soap. Is that only with certain recipes/techniques, or does that apply to all liquid soap?

I am starting with a 1:1 ratio, paste to distilled water, for my first dilution attempt. I am planning on using foaming dispensers, so I'm not too worried about making it too liquidy right off. I assume I'll have to add a lot more distilled water to be the right consistency for foaming dispensers. When I learned to make bar soap, I got rid of all the liquid soap dispensers in the house and switched to bars at the sink. I ordered some foaming dispensers today, so we can't try the liquid soap until they get here.

 

[AliOop]

I scent my soap at 1-2% of post-dilution weight. All of the EOs and FOs that I use do require an emulsifier to prevent separation. Some of them thin the soap out, while others thicken it - rather maddening, since you just don't know what will happen until you try.

If I'm diluting for foamers (which is all we use now), it's typically 4:1 water: paste ratio. You might be able to get away with 2:1, but I think it will probably clog the foamer, if not right away, then eventually as the bit of soap that stays in the spout dries out. I actually prefer the higher dilution anyway. It's less drying to the hands, and each batch lasts longer.

 

[ackosel]

Thank you, AliOop!

I scraped 4 oz of tiny bits of soap paste into a Mason jar and added 4 oz of distilled water. I let it sit for a couple hours and then started swishing and sloshing it around, and occasionally stirring it with a spoon every time I waked by. It had completely dissolved in 24 hours. I added essential oils (equal parts of peppermint, lemon & litsea cubeba) and mixed some more. I haven't noticed them separating yet (it's only been 24 hours) but I'm not sure the small amount I added would be easy to see.

 

[AliOop]

So fun! I’m impatient, so I pour boiling water over my paste, stir it for a bit, then microwave it, then stickblend it. It foams up a little, but that dissipates pretty quickly.

Let us know how you like your GMLS.