My first shaving soap is a success!

[Skatergirl46]

Wow. I can't wait to try this! But no clay, huh? I'd always heard that clay was a must-have in shaving soap.

I used clay in mine and I like the extra slip it provides.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

It's a soft soap, yes, but I don't think it needs a preservative, especially if you let it dry properly between uses. It's not like a liquid or true cream soap that has water added after the cook. The only reason why this soap is soft is that we're using KOH not NaOH. If we had been using NaOH, it would make a firm bar soap.

My batch is going on 4 weeks old now, and it has firmed up some but is still pliable like a soft wax. The soap does not crack or crumble. I use it as-is in the shower, but you could easily press it into a shaving mug or jar for use with a shaving brush.

Would using NaOH affect the lather or feel, do you think?

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

I used clay in mine and I like the extra slip it provides.

How much did you use? In my regular shave soaps, I usually add about a tbsp per 20 ounce batch.

 

[Skatergirl46]

How much did you use? In my regular shave soaps, I usually add about a tbsp per 20 ounce batch.

That sounds about right.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Thanks for the info! Going to give it a try right now...

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Would using NaOH affect the lather or feel, do you think? ..."

Yes, it will. NaOH will make the soap harder and will reduce the lather, depending on how much you use in proportion to your KOH.

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

Clay should be in all shave soap recipes.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Made two 8 oz batches of Songwind's recipe, as modified by DeeAnna (55/45 ratio) two days ago. Added a teaspoon of bentonite clay and half a tsp of oat powder to one, but followed the recipe exactly for the other. Agreed--the lather is wonderfully thick and creamy (although I can't seem to achieve the impressive billowy clouds of lather I see in the photos posted so far). Shave is very smooth on my legs. The batch with the clay and oat powder feels slightly more conditioning than the control batch--but neither feel quite as conditioning as another recipe I tried with hemp, castor, and butters. Still, very nice and the slight difference in afterfeel might be due to the fact that this soap is very fresh.

I'm curious to know how the soap behaves over time. After freezing and with the use of a liner in my column mold, I was able to cut the control batch into pucks, but they are very soft and sticky. I can't see shipping them in any form except a container. Those of you whose soap has had a few weeks or longer to cure--did you notice the soap hardening somewhat with curing? Did the quality of the shave change over time?

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Made two 8 oz batches of Songwind's recipe, as modified by DeeAnna (55/45 ratio) two days ago. Added a teaspoon of bentonite clay and half a tsp of oat powder to one, but followed the recipe exactly for the other. Agreed--the lather is wonderfully thick and creamy (although I can't seem to achieve the impressive billowy clouds of lather I see in the photos posted so far). Shave is very smooth on my legs. The batch with the clay and oat powder feels slightly more conditioning than the control batch--but neither feel quite as conditioning as another recipe I tried with hemp, castor, and butters. Still, very nice and the slight difference in afterfeel might be due to the fact that this soap is very fresh.

I'm curious to know how the soap behaves over time. After freezing and with the use of a liner in my column mold, I was able to cut the control batch into pucks, but they are very soft and sticky. I can't see shipping them in any form except a container. Those of you whose soap has had a few weeks or longer to cure--did you notice the soap hardening somewhat with curing? Did the quality of the shave change over time?

Oops--didn't read all the way through DeeAnna's post above. It sounds as though the product might be shippable with curing time. Has anyone else noticed anything different?

Thanks as always!

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

basically, the lather you've seen has been made by a brush after a bit of vigorous whipping. It's unlikely that you'll get the same lather in a shower of running water when using a washcloth. Also, Songwind's recipe (a clone of Martin de Candre Shave soap "MdC") is a soft soap made in the Italian style. It's not supposed to be hard like a puck. Instead, it is poured from the crockpot directly into individual pots.

Some folks are trying to make a hard puck (which always wants clay,) but the puck will generally only use NaOH. My sense, however, is that a puck needn't be rock solid, and might benefit from a bit of KOH to soften it up a bit. You might also consider the notion that shave soap takes clay so that the razor glides smoothly, and that anything grainy, like oatmeal, might damage a razor and exfoliate, neither of which is ideal.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

basically, the lather you've seen has been made by a brush after a bit of vigorous whipping. It's unlikely that you'll get the same lather in a shower of running water when using a washcloth. Also, Songwind's recipe (a clone of Martin de Candre Shave soap "MdC") is a soft soap made in the Italian style. It's not supposed to be hard like a puck. Instead, it is poured from the crockpot directly into individual pots.

Some folks are trying to make a hard puck (which always wants clay,) but the puck will generally only use NaOH. My sense, however, is that a puck needn't be rock solid, and might benefit from a bit of KOH to soften it up a bit. You might also consider the notion that shave soap takes clay so that the razor glides smoothly, and that anything grainy, like oatmeal, might damage a razor and exfoliate, neither of which is ideal.

Thanks for the information! I wasn't using a washcloth, but a badgerhair shaving brush. However, I also didn't work the lather very long--only about 30-40 seconds, as I was trying to replicate the shaving habits of men I know who are not necessarily shaving enthusiasts. But that may not be my ideal market, anyway.

I didn't notice any graininess, since the oat powder is actually a fine flour. But I can see where there might be a potential for clumping, which would be a problem.

I'm really excited about this recipe, even though it pretty much flies in the face of everything I've read regarding making shaving soaps*. It works amazingly well! My main concern is shipping at a time when I can't necessarily afford containers. But I think a moldable puck, like the one DeeAnna achieved with her mix of NaOH and KOH, might be a more than acceptable compromise. It might even be preferred by people who have a favorite cup or other container.

I think I'm also going to break down and order some Sodium Lactate. Incidentally, are there shavers who prefer a hard puck over softer, more creamy soaps?

* As always, I learn so much from these threads. But I swear, at this point I've heard so many conflicting opinions and seen so many different recipes regarding shave soaps--everything from "It's just really conditioning soap with clay" to incredibly complex formulas with high stearic butters and coconut oil under 10%... I don't know what to think anymore!

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

Though shavers often prefer one type of soap (cream, soft, puck, etc...,) it's important to note that we all seem to own and use every conceivable type. We even collect it. A friend just sent me a tub of Slovakian soft soap not because it's supposed to be great, but instead because I want soap from all over the world.

Shameless begging: isn't there a Greek shave soap maker that posts here? Send me a puck and I'll send you a bowl of my MdC!

Thirty seconds of a properly loaded brush should produce a good lather with Songwind's MdC recipe, but a minute, or longer would really whip nice. It's a soft soap and designed that to behave that way. Expecting a hard puck to produce lather that quickly will result in disappointment. Pucks are just different. Even Berlin Phil says so. It's not more complicated than that.

Have you watched any lathering videos on YouTube? The recurring themes are: to use a medium amount of hot water and adjust this as required; properly loading the brush with soap is critical but subject to a great deal of maniacally precise stylistic interpretation, including loading the brush upside down after shaking it three times; that it should be whipped for a long time either in a bowl, a scuttle or directly on the relevant body parts; and that you should consider the notion that making a lathering video is hysterically dull.

I've only ever made the MdC soft soap from this thread, but I'm about to try a hard puck. More than likely it will have a large percentage of tallow, some stearic acid, perhaps some Coconut oil, a small amount of lanolin, a bit of castor (which is probably a bad idea), some clay, and some combination of NaOH and KOH. It will be hot-processed, and probably called Mark's Wool Fat.

 

[SomethingGoodAustin]

Though shavers often prefer one type of soap (cream, soft, puck, etc...,) it's important to note that we all seem to own and use every conceivable type. We even collect it. A friend just sent me a tub of Slovakian soft soap not because it's supposed to be great, but instead because I want soap from all over the world.

Shameless begging: isn't there a Greek shave soap maker that posts here? Send me a puck and I'll send you a bowl of my MdC!

Thirty seconds of a properly loaded brush should produce a good lather with Songwind's MdC recipe, but a minute, or longer would really whip nice. It's a soft soap and designed that to behave that way. Expecting a hard puck to produce lather that quickly will result in disappointment. Pucks are just different. Even Berlin Phil says so. It's not more complicated than that.

Have you watched any lathering videos on YouTube? The recurring themes are: to use a medium amount of hot water and adjust this as required; properly loading the brush with soap is critical but subject to a great deal of maniacally precise stylistic interpretation, including loading the brush upside down after shaking it three times; that it should be whipped for a long time either in a bowl, a scuttle or directly on the relevant body parts; and that you should consider the notion that making a lathering video is hysterically dull.

I've only ever made the MdC soft soap from this thread, but I'm about to try a hard puck. More than likely it will have a large percentage of tallow, some stearic acid, perhaps some Coconut oil, a small amount of lanolin, a bit of castor (which is probably a bad idea), some clay, and some combination of NaOH and KOH. It will be hot-processed, and probably called Mark's Wool Fat.

I've been watching mantic59's videos to get a feel for what the real shaving aficionados prefer. They're very instructive. One of the things I learned is that shaving aficionados are, um, quirky folk to say the least.

The shaving soap I've been making with only NaOH has no tallow or lanolin, but a lot of butters and castor (about 20%), some hemp and avocado oils, plus added stearic and glycerin. Coconut oil is just under 10% as per other posters' recommendations. The soap takes a while to harden up, but once it does it lathers well. I get a decent lather after about 30-40 seconds of working it with the brush and some water. It's nothing like Songwind's recipe, though (Perhaps the low coconut plus the oleic acid content in the shea butter and avocado oils is creating an issue).

Aside from lather, the soap feels good on my legs. I've been told it gives a good shave overall. But I wasn't quite satisfied and now I'm _really_ not. I was planning to try boosting the glycerin (10% ppo currently) in my formula to increase lubrication, but now I think I'm going to try adding a bit of KOH as well. I feel inspired! (Scary!)

 

[alaskazimm]

I finally got around to making a batch of the shaving soap listed in the first post. It was also my first experiment with HP.

218 gr coconut
236 gr stearic acid
98 gr KOH
230 gr water
3 Tbsp glycerin

I cooked it 20 min over a (makeshift) double boiler at around 160F and got no zap on the zap-test. So far it all seemed like it was going according to this thread. Unmolded it after an overnight sit and cut it into bars and it still looks wet inside. I did a test lather with one piece and it produced a wonderful lather.
Did this separate into the coconut and stearic components? Does this simply need to dry out some more or does it need to go back into the cooker for longer?

Thanks for you help.

 

[DeeAnna]

Wait a bit and the color should lighten and even up. I cook mine for 15-20 minutes as well and I get no zap at that point. I see the same color variation in the cooled soap at first, but my soap has become uniformly stark white in a day or three. So "patience, grasshopper".

It does lather nicely at first, but I have also noticed that it lathers even better as time goes on -- the older soap takes less water, in particular, to build a thick cream.

Kudos!

Edit -- I'm not quite sure what is going on, but it almost looks like a crystallization process to me -- like the growth of frost on a cold window pane. I think it's kinda cool to watch the soap gradually change.

 

[ocean_soul]

So awhile back I tried this recipe out using the directions listed on on Badger & Blade forum....only the directions there had the glycerin being added before the cook. I'm pretty sure that's why my shaving soap dries my legs out like no other. >_< Next time I try making this soap I'll make sure to add the glycerin last.

 

[alaskazimm]

Oh awesome. I was hoping someone would say that! I was just a bit unsure as I've never done any HP'ing before.

Thank you DeeAnna - I mean sensei

Edit: And the scent combo that you came up with smells just great. I really like it.

 

[DeeAnna]

Ocean -- I'm not sure it really makes a difference when you add the glycerin. The lye is reacting with the fatty acid and fat, and I don't believe the glycerin is involved in the chemistry. That said, maybe there is some reaction going on that would tie up the glycerin during the cook. Or it could be some other issue that is making your soap more drying than you'd like.

My versions of Songwind's recipe are not overly drying to my skin. I am using 15% glycerin based on the total oil/stearic weight (see Post 94 in this thread). Adding a little more superfat might cut the lather some, but that might also be an option to experiment with if you need the soap to be less drying.

Alaska -- I've only done a few HP batches, mostly this shaving soap, so we're both "grasshoppers" doing this together. But I figure if you or I can figure out how to HP this shaving soap into submission, then we can HP most any regular type of soap as well.

 

[ocean_soul]

Ah, then perhaps I just needed more glycerin, period. I only a tablespoon or so. I'll definitely use more next time around.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep, I think you might want to try more glycerin and see what you think.

My last batch had a total of 1000 grams (35.24 ounces by weight) of "oils" -- meaning my stearic acid + coconut oil.

I would have put 150 grams of glycerin in that batch. If my math is correct, that is roughly 1/2 cup (8 Tablespoons) of glycerin.