My first shaving soap is a success!

[DeeAnna]

Hmmm, yeah, I'm getting hooked. I shaved again tonight with just a light lather made by a few casual swipes of the shaving soap on pits and legs. I'm again blown away by the closeness of the shave and the silky smoothness of my skin. Wow. Yep, pretty neat stuff there.

Okay, so let's look at your Fitjar shaving cream. Woman's product appears to be the same as the men's except for a "girly" fragrance. Ingredients from their website:

Potassium stearate
Potassium cocoate
Glycerine
Olea europea
Essential oils

Stearic acid and coconut oil saponified with KOH. The glycerine in the list could be just glycerin produced by the saponification process or it could also be added by the maker. If the glycerine is only from saponification, it will come just from the coconut oil, since stearic acid is not a triglyceride. Easy to calculate.

Olive oil superfat -- it does not appear to be saponfied or it would be potassium oleate. It might make the basic soap fluid enough to put it into the cream territory, perhaps with a bit of extra water. Hmmmmm. So daring Viking gentlemen like olive oil, hey????

Other than the olive oil, it sounds a lot like the MdC recipe to me, but I'm not a shaver in the sense that you are. In your experience, can you say how is the feel of the Fitjar different than MdC, if I may ask?

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint about Williams soap. Not having any "dog in this fight", I'll respect your reasoned and balanced opinion.

It's getting late, so I must leave your message partly digested, but this is a good start.

 

[bridger]

I gave this a try. I posted a new thread, but I should have posted it here. so here's the link: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=37104

I haven't shaved with it yet. I'll post a report when I do. probably this weekend.


I also am curious about castor oil as a shave soap. I don't know enough to understand the soapcalc numbers yet. I made a test batch of 100% castor with sodium hydroxide. I'll report on that also. if anyone here has played with stuff in this direction I'd like to hear about it....

 

[dagmar88]

http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

Okay, so let's look at your Fitjar shaving cream. Woman's product appears to be the same as the men's except for a "girly" fragrance. Ingredients from their website:

Potassium stearate
Potassium cocoate
Glycerine
Olea europea
Essential oils

Stearic acid and coconut oil saponified with KOH. The glycerine in the list could be just glycerin produced by the saponification process or it could also be added by the maker. If the glycerine is only from saponification, it will come just from the coconut oil, since stearic acid is not a triglyceride. Easy to calculate.

Olive oil superfat -- it does not appear to be saponfied or it would be potassium oleate. It might make the basic soap fluid enough to put it into the cream territory, perhaps with a bit of extra water. Hmmmmm. So daring Viking gentlemen like olive oil, hey????

Other than the olive oil, it sounds a lot like the MdC recipe to me, but I'm not a shaver in the sense that you are. In your experience, can you say how is the feel of the Fitjar different than MdC, if I may ask?

I picked up a tub of the woman's Fitjar for SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) and though she hasn't tried it in the two years that she's had it (long story), I must confess that I gave it a try yesterday, and found it to be damn fine soap. Good strong lather. It lasts a good long time and is very smooth. I could do without the scent, but I can recommend the recipe without hesitation. You would do well to try and make it.

As for the difference between the Viking soap and the MdC: I prefer my MdC, the stuff we made in this thread. It's still great! But is there a difference? Not really. There are too many variables to making lather to run a true comparison. Frankly, using this soap comes down to technique. By the time you've you matched the brush, the water hardness, the amount of soap on the brush, and a ton of other things, all you can hope for is getting the best out of the soap. That's probably why there are such diverse opinions on the Wool Fat and the Williams; they are each finicky old recipes that respond to details in technique. I'm a pretty good latherer, but it took me a while before I consistently got good lather from the The Fat. The creamy soaps like the Fitjar and the MdC are very forgiving, and make good lather for everyone. But once you get the hang of the oddball soaps, they really perform well.

I heard that Berlin Phil wants a tub of the stuff we made.

 

[MKRainville]

looks so nice! good job

 

[bridger]

so I'm happy to report that 55% stearic, 45% coconut via KOH lathers and shaves very nicely thankyouverymuch. after only a couple of days sitting it was very water hungry - so much so that it pulled hairs out of my badger brush.

I gave this a try. I posted a new thread, but I should have posted it here. so here's the link: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=37104

I haven't shaved with it yet. I'll post a report when I do. probably this weekend.


I also am curious about castor oil as a shave soap. I don't know enough to understand the soapcalc numbers yet. I made a test batch of 100% castor with sodium hydroxide. I'll report on that also. if anyone here has played with stuff in this direction I'd like to hear about it....

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

so I'm happy to report that 55% stearic, 45% coconut via KOH lathers and shaves very nicely thankyouverymuch. after only a couple of days sitting it was very water hungry - so much so that it pulled hairs out of my badger brush.

I agree... It was so water hungry after the first few days that I thought I had messed it up. I really didn't touch it for a couple of weeks, and now, a month later, it lathers itself when I walk by it and wink.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...The creamy soaps like the Fitjar and the MdC are very forgiving, and make good lather for everyone. But once you get the hang of the oddball soaps, they really perform well...."

Many thanks for the observations, Mark, and I will ponder on them. As I said before, I would like to try a second type of shaving soap. From your words, it sounds as if I just need to choose a likely direction and go for it.

"...I heard that Berlin Phil wants a tub of the stuff we made...."

I was finally able to give samples to my stepson and his friend. Feedback from those two young men, my other "normal" razor testers, and one straight blade tester have all been positive. The masses are clamoring for more. I have none to give them, and I'm getting ready to make another batch soon. If you can't accommodate poor Phil, let me know!

 

[bridger]

I shaved with the stearic / coconut soap this weekend. I made some test lather and left it while I showered. I didn't time it, but I didn't hurry either, and when I got out it looked the same as when I started. it has staying power. it also shaves just fine, plenty of glide and cushion. this first test batch has no scent added and I think I will want something if the smell of the unaged soap is going to remain. I'm guessing that the soapy smell will fade with time and I'll probably make scented and unscented batches. in any case, 55% stearic / 45% coconut / KOH makes an excellent shave soap. my guess is that there is a bit of a range in the percentages that gives this sort of performance. for someone doing production dialing in the numbers would be important. I'm making it for myself and a few friends, not for sale. it would take me a long time to make meaningful adjustments to the formula, so any changes from here will happen slowly. I will make some small test batches with other oils but I'm not going to put a lot of effort into that direction unless I get really stellar improvements, which seems unlikely- this stuff as is is the best shave soap I have used to date.


I played a bit with the castor oil soap. it makes a pretty generous amount of lather that has not really enough body and fades away after a few minutes. I worked it enough to get what looked like a shaveable lather and let sit with the other. by the time I got out of the shower it was all but gone. in the shower it performed well as a body bar. it had a slightly unpleasant feel- a little too slick- leaving me to wonder whether it would rinse off. it did rinse well, so I tried it on my hair, where it worked like a very nice shampoo. I see potential in that direction. the only downside is that it did slightly sting in my eyes.

 

[DeeAnna]

BTW, I wonder where Songwind has got to? He started a real movement, so it seems!

 

[dimitris]

I also did this recipe but CP... I thought I had a bad result, but it looks, lathers and feels excellent!
Although next time I will try HP for this.

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

I also did this recipe but CP... I thought I had a bad result, but it looks, lathers and feels excellent!
Although next time I will try HP for this.

Really? My understanding was that cold-processing that much stearic acid would explode like a science fair volcano!

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

I made some test lather and left it while I showered. I didn't time it, but I didn't hurry either, and when I got out it looked the same as when I started. it has staying power.

I had the same experience. I made lather in a scuttle and it was still thick and usable after my shower. This is a damn fine recipe.

my guess is that there is a bit of a range in the percentages that gives this sort of performance.

I agree, but frankly, I can't see how I would want to improve. I don't have a single complaint about the soap.

this stuff as is is the best shave soap I have used to date.

True that. (that's what the kids say: "true that." I'm pretty sure that it signifies a hearty agreement.)

 

[dimitris]

It didn't explode, but traced (or seized) almost immediately.

 

[bridger]

It didn't explode, but traced (or seized) almost immediately.

yeah, it's hard to make this recipe look pretty. it's not melt and pour- more like scoop and pack- and the surfaces of mine were nowhere near smooth. in spite of the fast saponification and fast PH balancing in the crock pot I think this soap will benefit from some aging. I'm experimenting with molds made from plastic plumbing pipe right now to see if I can make it into pucks for use in a mug or bowl. it's pretty soft still after a few days and I don't really expect it to harden up like bar soap so the molding idea may not pan out at all.

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

Many thanks for the observations, Mark, and I will ponder on them. As I said before, I would like to try a second type of shaving soap. From your words, it sounds as if I just need to choose a likely direction and go for it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, you may want to reconsider making a stick. As you've "described" it, you shave in the shower, without a brush, and probably (this is getting weird now) make lather with your hand or washcloth. A stick is probably perfect for you. A stick is simply a hard puck that's shaped like a solid deodorant. Because you don't use a brush, it would have to lather as easily as a soft soap or cream, but be solid like a puck. That's quite a functional specification. I don't shave in the shower (straight razors and slippery floors might seriously impact my social life if the bad thing happened,) so I can't say with certainty whether a stick and a washcloth would make good lather, but my guess is that it would.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...experimenting with molds made from plastic plumbing pipe..."

I am skeptical that you can mold Songwind's CO/KOH recipe into a PVC pipe and remotely have any chance of getting it out of the mold without digging it out. It stays more like taffy than a hard soap. Even after over a month of curing it would not be moldable as CP soap is molded. But, hey, that's just my opinion and YMMV. I'll be curious to see how it works for you.

"...cold-processing that much stearic acid would explode like a science fair volcano..."

Well, in my brief experience, it's more that the stearic causes "seizing", meaning the soap becomes very firm very fast. If you keep cooking a seized soap, it will continue to saponify and may soften up with time. Or at least become somewhat more workable, so you can get all the ingredients stirred up properly.

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I did a 2 stage hot-process saponification and it worked well. I used a 180 deg F (80 C) double boiler. Melt the the coconut oil in the double boiler. Add the KOH solution to the coconut oil and bring to a very thick trace. You can stick blend or hand blend -- either one would work fine. It's going to act exactly like a "normal" cold process recipe at this point, so you can get the mixture well blended.

At thick trace, switch to a spatula or spoon, add the melted stearic, and stir to a waxy, sticky mashed potato consistency. Keep warm in the double boiler for about 20 minutes, stir the "mashed taters" again, and check for zap. If zap, allow the mix to cook for another 20 minutes or so and retest. For the record, mine tested zap-free at 20 minutes.

Note: I suspect you could do this as a CP soap using much the same method -- melt the CO, combine it with the KOH solution, bring the KOH and CO to heavy trace, add the stearic, and stir like crazy. Pack the soap into a suitable container and let it finish saponifying on its own. The HP method I used wasn't a big deal though, and it was fun to do -- it certainly didn't take long.

I can't see how to make this recipe and end up with a well mannered CP soap batter that pours tidily into a mold -- you are going to get a sticky mess either way whether you do CP or HP. With HP, the sticky mess will be at a safe pH when you scrape it out of the soap pot. With CP, the sticky mess is going to be at a high pH when you scrape it out of the pot. I personally think it's nicer to deal with the messy-but-safe-pH stuff, so I can see why folks do soaps like this using a HP method.

After my soap tested zap free, I scraped the soap onto parchment paper and rolled the sticky soap into a rough log shape. I let it set for about a day, then unwrapped it, gently formed it into a tidier log, let it dry for a few days longer. When merely soft and pliable, rather than unreasonably sticky, I cut it into suitable chunks -- they looked a lot like marshmallows. I let the chunks dry longer until the soap was waxy and only slightly pliable.

"...and probably (this is getting weird now) make lather with your hand or washcloth..."

Yep. A little weird. But, hey, I think shaving soap and weirdness are inextricably connected.

As far as going to a slightly firmer stick-type soap for in-shower shaving ... it's a good idea, Mark -- thank you!. A soft puck of soap would work great in a mug with a shaving brush, but it is awkward to handle and store in the shower. Couple of ideas --

What about subbing out some of the KOH for NaOH to see if that will firm up the soap enough for in-shower use, while still preserving the lovely qualities of this recipe. Maybe 20% NaOH?

Or possibly use the 100% KOH recipe, but package it as you suggested in a twist-up or push-up container like a smaller version of a deodorant container. When cured, this soap is still pliable, but not really sticky, so the recipe might work fine as-is in this type of container. I think I have a suitable container to experiment with -- will let you know....

 

[bridger]

a full on tube mold is going to need a liner. some kind of heavy duty waxed paper seems like the right kind of thing.

 

[Mark the Box Guy]

a full on tube mold is going to need a liner. some kind of heavy duty waxed paper seems like the right kind of thing.

It shouldn't need a liner or a case. None of the sticks I use anything other than a very short base. The Palmolive stick, for example, has a short (<1/4 inch) base and two inches of tube-shaped soap above it.

 

[bridger]

It shouldn't need a liner or a case. None of the sticks I use anything other than a very short base. The Palmolive stick, for example, has a short (<1/4 inch) base and two inches of tube-shaped soap above it.

sorry if I wasn't clear. needing a liner was referring to using plumbing pipe as a mold, not the pushup stick.