My first shaving soap is a success!

[lenarenee]

Okay! Now see, that's what I thought from watching my father shave with a Williams puck and brush. He always laid a hot wet washcloth on his face first. And when you watch reruns of Andy Williams (Mayberry) the barber has faces covered with a wet towel before shaving.

For guys that use commercial shave cream from a can...what do they do? Or is there something in the can that replaces what hot water does?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Not sure what the canned stuff has in it, but they will need do something to the beard.

Me, I shave cold, so I wash my face with cold water and keep wetting my beard with cold water while I strop my razor and make my lather. By that point the beard is suitable. I also find that I don't want the hairs to be too soft - I want to cut them, not have them bend under pressure.

 

[LBussy]

I made Songwind's recipe back in late November, gave it out last week. The feedback I've gotten is that is does lather well and is very stable, but doesn't soften the beard. I'm a girl; I don't know what do with that information...?

Real soap does soften the beard, but there's "a process" like everything else. The reason it does soften the beard (and canned goo does not) is because the pH is higher like curling or straightening solution. Also, some guys have beards and faces that react better to hot water and some to cold. A guy needs to figure that out for himself. However if you go into a barber shop, you can expect a similar treatment:

Wash the face with warm/hot soap and water, leave wet. Covering with a hot damp towel for a few mins is a plus. Next, what I do is load a bit of soap on the brush, and just coat my WET face with it not working up a lather and let that sit. THEN I go about making my lather, and I apply it over the top of whats there.

These steps will help soften the beard if that's the issue.

A secondary issue is many people do not add enough water to the lather. You have to build then add more water till the stiff peaks become soft again. Shaving soap needs to hold a LOT of water next to the skin to be comfortable. This is where experimentation comes in: add water till the point it breaks down completely, then back it off a little nxt time.

Finally, I am not a fan of pure veggie soaps. If you must or prefer to make no animal fat soaps then finishing with a little shea in the superfat may help. I prefer a mix of shea and lanolin. If you will/can use animal fats, adding Tallow is like night and day. A fat profile like this is what I use:

50% Stearic Acid
25% Coconut Oil
20% Tallow

Good luck with it!

 

[HorseCreek]

Ok, I've spent the last day and a half reading this thread (down time at work, hehe)... wow! So much amazing info here.
I have the same question as someone (sorry can't remember who it was) else had recently re: making this into an actual cream (not the croap).
A cream that is squeezable. Why? Because that's what my brother uses and has requested. He started out with Proraso, and has since moved to The Art of Shaving cream soap. Sandalwood to be exact, lol.
He changed from the Proraso because The AoS one doesn't give him as many bumps and irritations. So I've been charged with duplicating or making an equally good or better version. I don't know if I could convince him to try out a croap or not. Maybe? I am learning how serious you gents take you shaving, lol. So at any rate... anyone have any good ideas on the cream side of things?

ETA: I've spend some time looking at the ingredients list of the AoS cream... it has a lot of "stuff" in it. Lots of "stuff" that I don't have or care to use. I'm also questioning if this "stuff" is what's cutting back on his bumps and irritation or if it's necesasry.

 

[LBussy]

I have the same question as someone (sorry can't remember who it was) else had recently re: making this into an actual cream (not the croap).

Creams are popular for folks who like the convenience of dosing a small amount out (like toothpaste) and not having to load up a brush.

I have not made a cream because ... well, it never occurred to me to do so. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned Alicia Grosso's book "The Everything Soapmaking Book" and in there is a recipe/process for shave cream. The suggestion was that it "sounded the same with more water and beating afterwards." That may be.

I know my own HP soap is quite hard right out of the pot even though I use KOH. I assume this is because I drive off so much water with a longer cook. I would assume the opposite to be true and if I were going to try it I would use more water, about 30 minutes cook (as opposed to my 2 hrs) and then whip in more moisture at the end. "Catie's Bubbles" is a shave soap I can bring to mind that is in a tub but much closer to a cream consistency. I suspect they do something like this.

 

[LBussy]

ETA: I've spend some time looking at the ingredients list of the AoS cream... it has a lot of "stuff" in it. Lots of "stuff" that I don't have or care to use. I'm also questioning if this "stuff" is what's cutting back on his bumps and irritation or if it's necesasry.

Proaso is closer to an Italian croap, but has it's own quite formidable (scary?) list:

Aqua (Water/Eau)
Stearic Acid
Cocos nucifera (Coconut) oil
Potassium Hydroxide
Glycerin
Sodium Hydroxide
Lactic acid
Parfum (Fragrance)
Menthol
Tocopheryl
Acetate
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcostinate
Hydroxyethylcellulose
Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate
Hexyl Cinnamal
Geraniol
Citral
Limonene
Linalool
Pentaerythrityl
Tetra-di-t-butyl Hydroxyhydrocinnamate
Thymus vulgaris (Thyme) Flower/Leaf Extract
Avena sativa (Oat) Kernel extract
Camellia sinensis Leaf extract
Etidronic acid
Tetrasodium EDTA

All in all it looks like a croap with more water and "commercial crap" + fragrances. A good discussion here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/291788-Need-New-Proraso-Ingredient-List

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would be tempted to see if you could make this soap or a variation with less CO and more lard/tallow as a cream. As I understand it, cream soaps are normal recipes with KOH, left for a while then mix with water and a preservative (because of the amount of water) and beaten until it is creamy. So no reason why a special recipe is needed.

 

[boyago]

Lindy was nice enough to put together a great tutorial on making cream soaps if anyone interested in this approach.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49652

 

[dosco]

Lindy was nice enough to put together a great tutorial on making cream soaps if anyone interested in this approach.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49652

That's very interesting.

The process raises a few questions for me.

1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in that thread).

2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add everything to the pot at once?

3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.

-Dave

 

[LBussy]

Lindy was nice enough to put together a great tutorial on making cream soaps if anyone interested in this approach.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49652

Ooh, awesome. Thanks (and thank you Lindy), I'll go read

 

[boyago]

That's very interesting.

The process raises a few questions for me.

You might get more traction asking on that thread. Without dissecting the recipe (yet) I'd guess perhaps the saponification is mostly done (well not done but the lye is busy with the fats) and the second dose of stearic is used as a sort of thickening agent?

 

[lenarenee]

Real soap does soften the beard, but there's "a process" like everything else. The reason it does soften the beard (and canned goo does not) is because the pH is higher like curling or straightening solution. Also, some guys have beards and faces that react better to hot water and some to cold. A guy needs to figure that out for himself. However if you go into a barber shop, you can expect a similar treatment:

Wash the face with warm/hot soap and water, leave wet. Covering with a hot damp towel for a few mins is a plus. Next, what I do is load a bit of soap on the brush, and just coat my WET face with it not working up a lather and let that sit. THEN I go about making my lather, and I apply it over the top of whats there.

These steps will help soften the beard if that's the issue.

A secondary issue is many people do not add enough water to the lather. You have to build then add more water till the stiff peaks become soft again. Shaving soap needs to hold a LOT of water next to the skin to be comfortable. This is where experimentation comes in: add water till the point it breaks down completely, then back it off a little nxt time.

Finally, I am not a fan of pure veggie soaps. If you must or prefer to make no animal fat soaps then finishing with a little shea in the superfat may help. I prefer a mix of shea and lanolin. If you will/can use animal fats, adding Tallow is like night and day. A fat profile like this is what I use:

50% Stearic Acid
25% Coconut Oil
20% Tallow

Good luck with it!

Thank you all for your input. Lee, I bought tallow off ebay for the purpose of shave soap, and I will try your recipe next.

I've been re-thinking my goal to please the men in my life with homemade shaving soap; I may not put that much effort into this after all if I have to "defend" the soap by telling these guys their shaving process is the problem.

Then again, perhaps it's not their process. Maybe its their unique beard, their water, or maybe it is my soap?? Its difficult to critique my soap solely through the eyes of another.

 

[dosco]

Thank you all for your input. Lee, I bought tallow off ebay for the purpose of shave soap, and I will try your recipe next.

I've been re-thinking my goal to please the men in my life with homemade shaving soap; I may not put that much effort into this after all if I have to "defend" the soap by telling these guys their shaving process is the problem.

Then again, perhaps it's not their process. Maybe its their unique beard, their water, or maybe it is my soap?? Its difficult to critique my soap solely through the eyes of another.

I'm a bit shocked that your significant other would give you static about "beard softening."

I make my own shave soap, and I have to tell you that it changed my life. Well, at least the unpleasant part of my life where I scrape my face.

Soap was a key part of this.

-Dave

 

[lenarenee]

I'm a bit shocked that your significant other would give you static about "beard softening."

I make my own shave soap, and I have to tell you that it changed my life. Well, at least the unpleasant part of my life where I scrape my face.

Soap was a key part of this.

-Dave

This was the father of my significant other. Someone I've never met in in person; he's....a very interesting person. Loves to show off how much he knows and has experienced, but doesn't like....to be challenged. Now that I think of it, he's just not open to the idea that there are more things to learn. He was happy to give feedback on the soap, but...I suspect happy to find something wrong with it.

Don't worry, it doesn't hurt my feelings. But the men I know, at this time...aren't interested in pursing this further, but were happy to give it a try. Me, I'd love to come up with a recipe for a hard shave soap, with colors and scents geared toward men...just for the novelty of doing something masculine instead of feminine. But I don't have the audience/feedback for it.

 

[LBussy]

Then again, perhaps it's not their process. Maybe its their unique beard, their water, or maybe it is my soap?? Its difficult to critique my soap solely through the eyes of another.

True! See if you can talk them into using distilled water for one session. I did this when travelling to a place with EXTREMELY hard water and it made a world of difference. It won't help you fix it for them but it will help you diagnose the issue.

 

[LBussy]

That's very interesting.

The process raises a few questions for me.

1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in that thread).

2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add everything to the pot at once?

3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.

-Dave

HA! I had the same questions and posted that in the other thread. We'll see.

 

[dosco]

HA! I had the same questions and posted that in the other thread. We'll see.

Great minds and all ...

 

[doriettefarm]

How low have you guys gone with the stearic acid and still feel like it's acceptable shave soap? I don't like the waxy feel it leaves on my skin so my next batch may use less stearic, more tallow and possibly babassu instead of coconut.

I used avocado oil as superfat in my first batch but may swap it for shea butter next time. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out . . . just need to buy an awesome shaving brush so I can test it properly!

 

[Obsidian]

Then again, perhaps it's not their process. Maybe its their unique beard, their water, or maybe it is my soap?? Its difficult to critique my soap solely through the eyes of another.

This is exactly why I started using a shave brush & vintage double edge razor on my legs. I figured if I was making a soap for wet shaving, I should understand the process and the characteristics of a good shave soap.
I doubt I'll ever go back to disposable razor, a good handmade soap and a sharp DE blade has given me the bests shaves on my life.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

How low have you guys gone with the stearic acid and still feel like it's acceptable shave soap? I don't like the waxy feel it leaves on my skin so my next batch may use less stearic, more tallow and possibly babassu instead of coconut.

I used avocado oil as superfat in my first batch but may swap it for shea butter next time. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out . . . just need to buy an awesome shaving brush so I can test it properly!

What amount of glycerine are you adding in? I don't find my 50% SA soaps to feel waxy - skin is different, I know, but I wonder if the glycerine is off-setting it