My first post and recipe! 50% Palm Oil, 45% Olive Pomace, 5% Castor Oil. Would love to get your opinion

[butterlicious]

Hi, everyone! I'm new to soap making and I've mostly just been lurking around here, but this forum has definitely helped me a lot. I've studied up quite a bit and I think I'm ready to test the waters and try my own recipe. I think I'm starting to figure out what kind of soap I like personally. I like hard soaps, but really mild and with a creamy lather. I don't like a squeaky clean feeling after usage, but I also don't want an oily/waxy residue.

What do you guys think of 50% Palm Oil, 45% Olive Pomace, 5% Castor Oil with 5% superfat and sugar/honey to increase bubbles? Is it ok that I left out Coconut Oil? I know those three oils make up the soap trinity but in my mind, the sugar should make up for what Coconut Oil brings to the table (basically cleansing and bubbles, please educate me if I'm wrong). I'm fine with having a low level cleansing bar, I feel it still cleans just fine. I believe the Palm Oil will already provide enough hardness but am also planning on using sodium lactate to hasten unmolding and because I read it makes everything come out smoother.

Low cost oils are kind of a priority for me right now. Was actually considering 100% Palm Oil soap also but I believe the Olive Oil should add more conditioning, which I like. I also have coconut oil, coconut and cow's milk powder, shea butter and cocoa butter if you think swapping those for some parts can improve my recipe. I wouldn't want to use a high percentage of the butters due to cost constraints though.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts. Thank you

 

[AliOop]

Welcome to the soapy fun! And thanks for explaining so clearly what goals you have for your soap.

You are correct that sugar will create more bubbles, but it does not add cleansing per se. Without adding too much cleansing, even 10% CO will bring a nice amount of bubbles. I love a low-cleansing bar myself, so anywhere between 10% and 20% CO works for me. Also, I am generally not a fan of high OO or PO soaps, but many people do love both in a well-balanced bar.

With your goals in mind, I think it's great to try your first soap without any butters for cost savings. A bit later down the road, you might want to add some shea butter for more conditioning. Even 5-7% makes a difference for me. But for now, here is what I'd suggest:

40% Palm
40% Olive
15% Coconut
5% Castor

Add 1 Tbsp of sugar per pound (or per 500g) of oils. Be sure to dissolve the sugar in the water before adding the lye to the water.

This won't be the most balanced recipe possible, but given the goals that you have, and the oils you have on hand, it will make decent soap. To get more balanced, I'd take 5% each from palm and olive, and use 5% shea and 5% cocoa butter, or even 10% shea. But then you would be making a 6-oil soap, and that can be a bit much for the first time. Sticking with four oils to start will make your first soaping session less stressful.

Whatever you decide to do, don't forget to take pictures and share your results with us. We love pictures.

 

[butterlicious]

Thank you so much for your input Ali! I'll be following your recommendations for my next batch.

Yes, I am aware that sugar does not add cleansing. What I meant to say was I didn't mind that my original recipe basically had a cleansing power of 1 as per the lye calculator. Thank you for the clarification though. I will be adding that coconut oil as you recommended.

Do you mind clarifying what is meant by having a balanced soap? Is it just based on the soap having all properties well within the range of recommended numbers such as the table below? Sorry if this is a really basic question, I've tried searching the forums and couldn't find an answer.

Property	Recommended
Bubbly Lather	14 - 46
Cleansing	12 - 22
Condition	44 - 69
Hardness	29 - 54
Longevity	25 - 50
Creamy Lather	16 - 48
Iodine	41 - 70
Ins	136 - 165

Again, thank you for your insights!

 

[Corsara]

Look out! Your first soap can be a gateway drug!

It's great fun though I am pretty new, I've made 4 batches so far, and this forum has been fantastic help. I already have 4 more planned, and a huge order of supplies on the way...

 

[earlene]

I often not use a lot of CO, in fact, sometimes I use none, and the soap still cleans when used. One example is Castile soap (using only Olive Oil and lye), which cleans just as well when used properly.

Just a reminder that the physical act of friction in conjunction with soapy water, and possibly a wash cloth or other implement (I like to use a nail brush when I wash my hands), helps remove surface dirt and germs. Friction is an important factor in the removal of germs and dirt from the surface of any object, be it skin or otherwise. Soap by itself doesn't clean, it has to have help. (See links below for reference.)

Anyway, that aside, the use of Coconut Oil in soapmaking is not required and you are allowed to choose to use it or not as you desire. I agree that since it is available to you, that trying at least a few batches where you include it (in small amounts if the cost is high) will help you make an informed decision on if this is something you do or don't want to include in your soap. If you try a few formulas in small batches (with and without CO), then you have soaps you can compare to each other, and that is how you decide if you want to use it or not.

If CO is expensive where you live, and you determine that you do like it and want to use it, but it is price that puts you off CO, then you could shop around for sales. I sometimes find CO on sale in the most unlikely places and pick it up for reduced prices so I'll have some on hand for soap.

I think your above recipe is fine as is. If pomace Olive Oil is cheaper than other forms of OO, then by all means use it instead. I like to use pomace OO, but it is more expensive here, so I tend to use a less expensive one (not Extra Virgin, because it is also quite expensive here), but for Castile soap, I mix both because I like how the pomace OO traces so quickly.

Since you have shea & cocoa butter, I'd suggest you make some small batches where you incorporate those as well in small percentages. I have not worked with powdered Coconut flour in soap, but I suspect it would give you some extra bubbles due to the starches (sugars) it contains. You could soak it in some of your oil to soften it and mix it in anytime you wish, but I'd probably mix it into the oils before adding the lye solution. Powdered milk will also promote bubbles (same reason) and that is used by many soapmakers in the same way.

In spite of the fact that I don't always use a lot of CO in my soap, I am becoming fond of a soap I made last year with 40% palm, 15% soy wax and 20% CO, so sometimes it's the formula itself that determines when a higher amount of CO is non-stripping (high cleansing numbers can lead to stripping oils from the skin, making the skin feel dry.) Normally I can't use that much CO in soap or it will dry out my skin and make me itch all day long, so I do have to admit that it really is the formula that determines how much CO is acceptable in soap, but the cure time also plays a part in determining mildness or harshness of any given formula. I've noticed a longer cure leads to a milder soap.

Another really nice bubbly soap is made with rice water in place of distilled water (the water from cooking rice or from pre-soaking rice). The starch in the rice water provides more bubbles in the soap. For more information on this type of soap, search the forum for Dawni's Triple Rice soap thread to read more about making soap with rice water, rice, even rice powder.

Reference links: Importance of friction in handwashing
More about handwashing:
A video showing friction in handwashing (without additional implements):

 

[AliOop]

Hi @butterlicious, I agree with @earlene that a high cleansing number is neither needed, nor usually desired, in soap that will be used on the body. Even soap with a cleansing number of 0 will actually clean you; it will just strip away less body oils and thus be less drying to your skin.

I also don't tend to like high CO soaps, as they are very stripping/drying to my skin. However, a soap without any CO or PKO (like the one in your original recipe) is usually going to have very little lather. At best, the lather will be more creamy like a lotion, rather than bubbly. With high OO soaps that have no CO, the lather is often described as "snotty." You can search this forum to see pictures of that.

If you don't want to use CO, you can use various forms of sugar or starch to increase the bubbles, and you can use a bit of castor oil to stabilize the amount of lather that the other ingredients create. But I personally like to add at least 10% CO or PKO to my soaps, because I do like bubbly lather.

However, not everyone cares about bubbles; some are fine with the lotion-like feeling of their lather, and it's more important to them to leave out the CO that makes their skin feel dry or itchy. Everyone has different needs and preferences, so it will take some experimentation to find what you like.

Yes, the idea of balanced soap is based on the numbers in the soap calculator. Just remember that those are guides, not hard and fast rules. The calculator numbers do not always accurately predict what soap will be nice, or nice for you in particular.

For instance, most experienced soapers are going to keep the cleansing number very low for a soap used on the body, often 12 or under -- not 12- 22 as suggested. That's one area where the calculator really misleads new folks, who tend to think they need to get the cleaning number around the middle of that range. But a soap with a cleansing number of 17 would be way too drying for many of us who started making soap due to skin sensitivities.

What will help most is to learn about the fatty acids, and what each one brings to the soap. Then you can look at the fatty acid profiles shown in the recipe calculator, and know whether the soap is going to perform the way you want.

I hope all this information is not overwhelming to you. We want to be a help on your journey, so don't hesitate to ask more questions as they come up!

 

[butterlicious]

Wow, thank you @earlene and @AliOop . I learned so much from both your posts.

@earlene This is the first I've heard about using rice water in soaping! I use rice water regularly to water my plants so I do have that readily available as well. I will be reading up on it, thank you for pointing me to the right thread. Yes, I agree about trying out different formulas to see which works best for me, and will be trying out small batches first.

Yes, in my area Olive pomace is cheaper than other kinds of OO. I find it interesting how in some areas like yours, pomace is more expensive than regular OO considering pomace is supposedly inferior to it

Regarding the use of CO, I think I was just feeling overly cautious on using it for my first own formula because I always hear how it can make your soap too drying. I've read varying accounts on how much people can tolerate, and how some can't handle any CO at all so I thought I'd do away with it and instead rely on additives to increase bubbles. I do agree that the whole formula itself plays a part on that, as well as individual skin type and preferences.

@AliOop Thank you for opening my eyes about the importance of fatty acid profiles. I admit I usually just gloss over that part when I play around with the calculator. Guess I have some more reading to do!

I do love a lotion-like lather, but I realize I like a bit of bubbles too. I will be sticking to 10% CO as you suggest, along with 5% Castor oil and sugar additives.

@Corsara I have the same numbers! Excluding one or two melt and pour. I realized early on that I enjoy doing cold process more because I like knowing exactly what goes in my soap. When I first started I told myself I was just going to keep things simple.
....Fast forward to now and I am anxiously waiting for my huge order of supplies in the mail as well