My brother is driving me crazy...

[saltydog]

My brother loves my soap, so he decided to try m&p- which is great for him. He is in a wheelchair, so it's a great hobby, although he's a very addictive personality, so it's costing him a lot of $$.

That's not so bad, though, I'm glad he has something to do. The problem here is that he calls me to find someone to set up a website for him to sell his soap! I told him he was no where near ready to do that, and he got pissed at me and told me I wasn't the soap police. He didn't talk to me for four peaceful days, but did send me a not-so-nice voicemail.

Recently he's become obsessed with CP. By obsessed, I mean he has spent many hundreds of dollars on supplies already, and he's only been reading a few weeks. He calls and emails me constantly, asking me all kinds of questions. I'm just learning myself, so I sent him links to all kinds of tutorial vids and good sites to read, and asked him to wait for me and I will help him make his first one.

He is very impatient and decided to start without me and so far has made 3 failed batches. The first problem he had (and I can't even get into all the rest) is that his lye was 'faulty'. Two different types. In trying to trouble shoot on the phone with him, we realized that he was using grams of lye to oz. of water. Tap water. With no goggles or gloves. Ugh.

This morning he sent me another email stating that he rebuilt my husbands transmission and I owe him for that and I need to come over and help him. I also need to bring recipes because he cannot understand how to use SoapCalc. And BTW, he INSISTED on working on my husbands tranny, and my husband paid him for it!

I told him I was PLANNING on coming over today, that I have not had opportunity until tonight to do so and what is the guilt trip for?? He wasn't ready to start in the first place, and now it's an emergency.

I guess there's really no point to this post, just a vent, but I've had such a hard time lately with him (there's a lot of back-story, as you've probably gathered) that he's starting to ruin my soaping experience!

 

[Fullamoon]

Oh my Val. It's like sewing with a kid around who wants to use the machine too. I feel your pain.

 

[saltydog]

Oh my Val. It's like sewing with a kid around who wants to use the machine too. I feel your pain.

Yes, Fullamoon, and he wants to use it NOW!

 

[Fullamoon]

I find soap-making to be very therapeutic. Does he have a social worker or someone who comes in to help him? Maybe that person could help him out.

 

[Fyrja]

Addictive personalities and new hobbies can be a very bad thing if not reined in.

This reminds me of my father actually. He did this his entire life, he'd find something he wanted to do and go at it full force. Bee keeping, bird breeding, dog breeding, engine repair, wood working, farming, wine and beer making. Only it never really stopped at a hobby either. He spent thousands on each hobby, and always tried to make it into a business. I remember him selling his own honey when I was a child, I remember hand feeding baby birds, applying for pedigree dog papers. We just cleared out his old wood shop, and we still have most of his farm equipment. I also remember his wine exploding all over one of our closets, and bottling his beer.

But it wasn't just him. He always coerced the family into doing most of the work, and if we didn't we were subject to temper tantrums and guilt trips. He also always professed himself to be an expert on any of his hobbies, even if he'd only done it for a short time with minimal research.

I feel for you salty. It sounds like your brother might be of a similar personality type as my dad.

I'm not sure what to tell you, except that you should force him to do soap making the correct way. IE he needs to learn to use a soap calc, and he does need to do his own research. Do not let him take your recipes and take credit for them, or force you to do his research. It's good to share, but it should be a sharing experience. No one should be guilt tripping anyone else, EVER.

If he's like my dad was, then there's a good chance he'll get bored with it soon enough and move on to another hobby. I guess it's just sort of like riding out a storm. Just please don't let him take the joy out of it for you.

 

[saltydog]

I find soap-making to be very therapeutic. Does he have a social worker or someone who comes in to help him? Maybe that person could help him out.

Yes, and this is why the m&p was good for him. He doesn't have anyone but my Mom, though, and they argue a lot. The last time I spoke with him he accused her of hiding his soaping thermometer :?

Addictive personalities and new hobbies can be a very bad thing if not reined in.

This reminds me of my father actually. He did this his entire life, he'd find something he wanted to do and go at it full force. Bee keeping, bird breeding, dog breeding, engine repair, wood working, farming, wine and beer making. Only it never really stopped at a hobby either. He spent thousands on each hobby, and always tried to make it into a business. I remember him selling his own honey when I was a child, I remember hand feeding baby birds, applying for pedigree dog papers. We just cleared out his old wood shop, and we still have most of his farm equipment. I also remember his wine exploding all over one of our closets, and bottling his beer.

But it wasn't just him. He always coerced the family into doing most of the work, and if we didn't we were subject to temper tantrums and guilt trips. He also always professed himself to be an expert on any of his hobbies, even if he'd only done it for a short time with minimal research.

I feel for you salty. It sounds like your brother might be of a similar personality type as my dad.

I'm not sure what to tell you, except that you should force him to do soap making the correct way. IE he needs to learn to use a soap calc, and he does need to do his own research. Do not let him take your recipes and take credit for them, or force you to do his research. It's good to share, but it should be a sharing experience. No one should be guilt tripping anyone else, EVER.

If he's like my dad was, then there's a good chance he'll get bored with it soon enough and move on to another hobby. I guess it's just sort of like riding out a storm. Just please don't let him take the joy out of it for you.

Fyrja, I appreciate your response. Wow, that sounds like a pretty tough upbringing. Now it is I who feel for you!
They do sound very similar, and my brother has always refused to acknowledge that his actions (big time drug addiction) growing up have had any effect on anybody else's life in my family besides his own. :shock:

I am trying to force him to do soapmaking in the proper way, but you just cannot teach patience, which he is sorely lacking. He asks my advice and then talks over me, is on heavy pain medication and processes only bits and pieces of information.

Funny, my whole life I feared him, and now I just feel sorry for him. I've come up with the conclusion that sympathy feels better to me than fear, so I try to help when I can.

BTW, I've never considered that I'm giving him 'my' recipes. Good point. I will go there today with a super simple one, and then try to show him how to use SoapCalc for himself. Not even sure if that's going to happen anyway, because my husband finally exploded on him this morning, so my brother may be sulking. If that's the case, it's fine, I'll go home and eat dinner with my husband.

If he did get bored with it, that would be cool, then I'd confiscate all his supply :twisted: :wink:

 

[Fyrja]

LOL Saltydog! Let's hope he gets bored with it before he uses all his good ingredients!

Don't feel sorry for me. I'm grateful that I grew up with someone who had an addictive personality. It's made me more aware of my own addictive tendencies, and better able to rein them in when necessary. What does not kill us, makes us stronger right?

Besides, I learned a lot of things most kids never do. For example I know how to smoke out a hive and retrieve honey. I know how to identify different types of wrenches, I know how to feed baby birds. I even had a pet owl growing up. Imagine if you will a 9 year old girl wearing a big leather gauntlet with an owl sitting on it?

The point is, there were times when it was crappy, but not always. My zeal for wanting to learn new things like soap making came from my dad. But the awareness that I need to do these things in moderation and learn in good time came from my observations of him. I also learned that my hobby is my hobby and that I have no right to subjugate anyone else's time.

Unfortunately the extreme one sidedness personality attribute is a side effect of the addictive personality. My father, who is in a home with diabetes, cirrhosis, and alzheimers will still not acknowledge that he hurt us. He will never admit that the cirrhosis, and subsequent diabetes that led up to the speedy progression of his alzheimers was due to his addiction. Addicts just don't see the world that way. From what I've observed being around them, it seems like their view of the world is very one sided. They see the people around them as vehicles to advance their own needs and wants, rather than as individuals. I'm not saying that they are bad people, just selfish on a very primal level.

 

[saltydog]

Fyrja,
It's true, you are all of your experiences to date. You sound very self-aware, and that is a great quality that many people lack. You have a positive way of looking at things, but I'm sure you realize that, as you probably attract the same positive energies & people back to yourself.

So, I went to help my brother tonight, I just stood back and watched him do his thing, trying to figure out what he was doing wrong. His first two batches were lye encrusted viscous tongue-zappers that I threw away.

The first thing he does is measure lye dry and then water in liquid ounces.
Then he goes to measure his 'lard', except his lard turns out to be Crisco. His Coconut Oil turns out to be fractionated coconut oil.

Anyway, after some quick SoapCalc work, we made a real basic batch, out of what he did have.

He agreed to wait 24 hrs before unmolding and I think he feels better/calmer about the whole thing. I told him to start studying his oil properties and take a look at SoapCalc. We'll see how that goes.

 

[saltydog]

Addicts just don't see the world that way. From what I've observed being around them, it seems like their view of the world is very one sided. They see the people around them as vehicles to advance their own needs and wants, rather than as individuals. I'm not saying that they are bad people, just selfish on a very primal level.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Fullamoon]

Hmmmm...if he's on medication then lye might be dangerous. Maybe you could give him an assignment, like trying to figure out how to make gemstone soaps? Something he can be creative with, make it his own and still be using the melt and pour method because it's safe? My blog has a tutorial of how I make gemstones and there are also more online. You could send him the link or you could ask him to figure it out. I had fun figuring it out for myself. Just an idea...

 

[saltydog]

Hmmmm...if he's on medication then lye might be dangerous. Maybe you could give him an assignment, like trying to figure out how to make gemstone soaps? Something he can be creative with, make it his own and still be using the melt and pour method because it's safe? My blog has a tutorial of how I make gemstones and there are also more online. You could send him the link or you could ask him to figure it out. I had fun figuring it out for myself. Just an idea...

If he were a normal person, that would be a great idea. Once he has something in his head, though, he's doing it- come hell or high water. I probably should have never told him I was making CP, I should have realized.
He had so many specialty oils that weren't even in SoapCalc, I told him to send them back. He just becomes obsessive about things, there's no talking him into gemstones, trust me. He's got so much CP supply it's incredible.

He hasn't driven in months, but felt the need to drive the other day because he didn't realize he needed distilled water to soap with and he had to do it immediately. He needs instant gratification. I talked to him about that today. I told him CP is all about research, learning, respecting the chemistry & art, taking your time and enjoying it. Don't know if anything sunk in.

 

[PrairieCraft]

This has got to be so aggravating. I would be tempted to go all elementary school and insist he stop copying me and find his own thing to do. Maybe you should pretend you've dropped soap because you've conquered it and tell him you've taken up basket weaving. Then say basket weaving is something that he probably shouldn't do because...idk, lost it, improvise. I know, I know that's totally childish.

 

[saltydog]

This has got to be so aggravating. I would be tempted to go all elementary school and insist he stop copying me and find his own thing to do. Maybe you should pretend you've dropped soap because you've conquered it and tell him you've taken up basket weaving. Then say basket weaving is something that he probably shouldn't do because...idk, lost it, improvise. I know, I know that's totally childish.

BAHAHAHA! Yes, I have mastered it, I'm bored- onto the loom...or something..

and if you want, I'll safely dispose of all your unused product

 

[krissy]

i feel sorry for you having to go through that, it sucks to have someone mess up something you enjoy so much.

if it were me, i would confiscate all of his soaping stuff. i would load it up and take it out of his house until he learns to respect you, the art and the chemicals he is using. leave him with books from the library and the computer for research.
also i don't know enough about your brothers drug use, but i would worry that he might realize he can use lye to make meth. i dont know the process of making meth at all but it would be a worry to me for anyone who has a drug using history and an addictive personality
.

 

[Fullamoon]

Oh Krissy I hadn't even thought of that. You are so right.

 

[saltydog]

i feel sorry for you having to go through that, it sucks to have someone mess up something you enjoy so much.

if it were me, i would confiscate all of his soaping stuff. i would load it up and take it out of his house until he learns to respect you, the art and the chemicals he is using. leave him with books from the library and the computer for research.
also i don't know enough about your brothers drug use, but i would worry that he might realize he can use lye to make meth. i dont know the process of making meth at all but it would be a worry to me for anyone who has a drug using history and an addictive personality
.

Krissy, I know what you're saying, and I've thought of it myself.
I told him last night he needs to CHILL THE F**K OUT! ..and some other choice words. I told him he needs to educate himself on soap oil properties and I would NOT be supplying him with any more recipes. I told him if he wants to be a soapmaker, the research and recipes are all up to you! (as per Fyrja)

However, it's a very difficult thing to go there (he keeps the doors dead-bolted because of course he is paranoid, too) and take away everything he's paid for. He'd probably call the cops on me, lol.

He can't make meth because he lives with my mom and doesn't really go farther than the dining room. The house is really small so there's no where for him to hide. He can't even get up the stairs.

I had a long talk with my mom this morning, and apologized to her for even mentioning the CP to him. He has nothing else going on, so we would swap soap pics over email. At the time, I wasn't thinking and very excited about trying something new. She said she didn't think it wasn't my fault, so I'm glad for that. I feel more sorry for her than I do for myself. She has to deal with him day in and out, and knows no one else will subject themselves to him. It's a sad situation for her as a mother, my problems with him are really minuscule in comparison.