Misinformation?

[melinda48]

Exactly right. Thank you!

 

[Shelley D]

The people who fall for it and try to make soap following her method will most likely have more failures than success ~ and they will be the people who stop at your table at a market or drop a comment on your website saying that making soap isn't that easy and they will question your process to see what's different. That's when you will have a chance to to make a difference Just remember to be patient with them because this misinformation is probably what they started with

 

[dmcgee5034]

It might not make a difference, but I am one of those that does write to companies about concerns and some of them have made changes based on the feedback (and probably a bunch of other people, too). The most recent example is Splenda changing their caps on a product my hubby uses that was nearly impossible to open - my hubby is a young 60yo strong guy and he had to use pliers to open it every day. Anywho, I wrote them 3 times over an extended period and holy cow, they did eventually change it.
So I say send an email, you never know, they might appreciate some feedback.

 

[MrsZ]

Sadly, I am pretty sure that this line of products is created by The Soap Gal, someone I respected from afar before she started promulgating this kind of stuff. Her own business does a huge volume of soap for wholesale, most likely for brands like Dr. Squatch (which doesn't make its own soap within that company).

She posted on YT awhile back about a product line just like this that she was putting out in large craft stores. She has other posts about how she packages her soap quickly because it's going to spend some time on her shelves, then in shipment, then on the seller's shelves - so it almost certainly will have at least four weeks of cure by the time it is used.

What bothers me is that this model doesn't apply to the small wholesalers, who may be delivering directly to one or more fairly local stores - like the small maker/seller in my area does. There is no lag time between leaving her "manufacturing" facility, and reaching the store shelves - unless you count the drive across town, which might be an hour in the very worst of traffic.

Also, it's very disingenuous to say these things:

1. that she's only using a 50-50 lye solution. Her overall lye concentration in each batch is decreased by the water used to dissolve the salt solution;

and

2. that there are "no fumes when one makes a 50-50 lye solution." Her facility makes huge lye masterbatches using ice - again, something that the small, local wholesaler/seller isn't likely to do. So unless someone has seen her other videos, or learned from another source, one would not know that it is the ICE, not the masterbatching process or the 50-50 solution, that eliminates the fumes.

Again, this is very disappointing from someone whose work I otherwise respect.

I did some more research, and it appears that you are right about who is making it. I honestly can't believe that a professional soapmaker is promoting these ideas! I read the article out of curiosity because the products I found didn't seem self explanatory, and to me if someone is browsing Hobby Lobby and sees soapmaking stuff and decides, "hey, this could be a fun afternoon project!", the products they come across should at least have some kind of instructional/educational info on them. When I read the tutorial, I was shocked. I told my (non-soapy but always listens to me talk about soap) husband all the points I found problematic in the article, and even he was surprised at it. We both honestly assumed that it was likely an article written by AI or something.

I can see how labeling and shipping her soaps early could work out for her, as you explained the time it takes for everything to be moved and get to the consumer. However, the products in the store and the article on her page all shout "for beginners! Learn how to make soap here!" to me. If I had followed those instructions when I first started, I truly doubt I would have fallen in love with soaping. I guess I'm just frustrated that instead of teaching, the goal seems to be "use these pre-packaged products, follow my instructions, and then sell what comes out of it!".

I guess I'm really up on my soapbox today.

 

[MrsZ]

The people who fall for it and try to make soap following her method will most likely have more failures than success ~ and they will be the people who stop at your table at a market or drop a comment on your website saying that making soap isn't that easy and they will question your process to see what's different. That's when you will have a chance to to make a difference Just remember to be patient with them because this misinformation is probably what they started with

I love this, thank you!

It might not make a difference, but I am one of those that does write to companies about concerns and some of them have made changes based on the feedback (and probably a bunch of other people, too). The most recent example is Splenda changing their caps on a product my hubby uses that was nearly impossible to open - my hubby is a young 60yo strong guy and he had to use pliers to open it every day. Anywho, I wrote them 3 times over an extended period and holy cow, they did eventually change it.
So I say send an email, you never know, they might appreciate some feedback.

I may try to write an email after a while. I'm frustrated enough about it that I better wait for now.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Let's face it - who among us has become rich from making soap? Hands up!!! See - no-one. It might be a supplementary income for the small seller, or a pension top up, but no-one is living entirely off their soap sales are they (as a single maker)?
People will realise this once they try this miracle lye solution and start selling, waiting for the millions to roll in. Great marketing plan - as great as '1/4 moisturising cream". Aimed at the gullible.

 

[AliOop]

I did some more research, and it appears that you are right about who is making it. I honestly can't believe that a professional soapmaker is promoting these ideas! I read the article out of curiosity because the products I found didn't seem self explanatory, and to me if someone is browsing Hobby Lobby and sees soapmaking stuff and decides, "hey, this could be a fun afternoon project!", the products they come across should at least have some kind of instructional/educational info on them. When I read the tutorial, I was shocked. I told my (non-soapy but always listens to me talk about soap) husband all the points I found problematic in the article, and even he was surprised at it. We both honestly assumed that it was likely an article written by AI or something.

I can see how labeling and shipping her soaps early could work out for her, as you explained the time it takes for everything to be moved and get to the consumer. However, the products in the store and the article on her page all shout "for beginners! Learn how to make soap here!" to me. If I had followed those instructions when I first started, I truly doubt I would have fallen in love with soaping. I guess I'm just frustrated that instead of teaching, the goal seems to be "use these pre-packaged products, follow my instructions, and then sell what comes out of it!".

I guess I'm really up on my soapbox today.

100% agree. It's disappointing that she went this route. Then again, perhaps the manufacturer and seller decided to repackage this in a way that doesn't represent her original intentions or design - kind of like how the movie never really tracks with the book.

 

[MrsZ]

100% agree. It's disappointing that she went this route. Then again, perhaps the manufacturer and seller decided to repackage this in a way that doesn't represent her original intentions or design - kind of like how the movie never really tracks with the book.

That does make sense, let's hope that's what happened.

 

[paradisi]

Let's face it - who among us has become rich from making soap? Hands up!!! See - no-one. It might be a supplementary income for the small seller, or a pension top up, but no-one is living entirely off their soap sales are they (as a single maker)?
People will realise this once they try this miracle lye solution and start selling, waiting for the millions to roll in. Great marketing plan - as great as '1/4 moisturising cream". Aimed at the gullible.

This is what I was saying up above.

And the personality who aims at the gullible isn't interested in a long term commitment to a craft. They're after the people they can sell their kits to.

And unless they're asking for advice, they most likely won't be interested.

 

[Elise]

You can safely use soap as soon as it is saponified. However, it is not its “best self.” It will be softer and not last as long as if you actually allow it to properly cure for 4 weeks. I have, in the past, had to let go of some at 3 weeks but I can do so knowing it is not going to “hurt” anyone! It is not its best but it is usable soap. A lot of chemistry continues as long as soap sits and just becomes better and better. I, personally, do not believe that using a 1:1 ratio of water to lye makes soap usable faster. Maybe I am old-fashioned or off base but I will continue to make my soaps and let them cure at least 4 weeks (99% of the time).

Yes I know. And I also want to cure my soaps for 4 weeks. Actually I prefer even longer, at the 4 weeks mark I still find that they get less bubbly and more gooey after a couple of use. Like if they absorb moisture back too quickly. I really find that the older they are, the better. I still don't understand the chemistry that happen during long cures, but I strongly believe it happens

 

[DeeAnna]

...We both honestly assumed that it was likely an article written by AI or something....

That was the impression I got too. Maybe edited by a human, but the overall tone was that cheery "say lots without saying anything" kind of prose that AI likes to do.

I can see how labeling and shipping her soaps early could work out for her.... However, ... the articles on her page all shout "for beginners!..."...

I agree with you. In soap making, as with so many other skills, context is everything. Answers that are well suited for larger scale soapmakers producing for wholesale aren't necessarily good information to present to beginners.

 

[MrsZ]

I just saw on one of the Facebook soap groups someone was asking what the percentages of coconut, palm, and olive oils are in the Trinity blend from this company. They wanted to add Shea butter to their bars and needed to know so they could run it through a soap calculator. Another person shared a screenshot of the company's response from when they asked the same question. The company said that that they are sorry, but the percentages are proprietary information. I went to the product page for the oil blend, and it calls the soap "cold pressed soap".

It shouldn't bother me, but everything I've seen about this company so far irks me.

 

[artemis]

. The company said that that they are sorry, but the percentages are proprietary information. I went to the product page for the oil blend, and it calls the soap "cold pressed soap".

It shouldn't bother me, but everything I've seen about this company so far irks me.

I think it's pretty fair for them to not disclose their recipe. I would not expect you to give me yours. Why would they want a potential customer to be able to make it themselves instead of coming in to buy it.

 

[MrsZ]

@artemis I had not thought of it that way. Thank you for your perspective. I guess you are right, I never expect a maker to give up their recipe for their finished soaps. I'll try to remember this isn't much different.

I see products that seem to be geared towards helping people learn to make soap, and I guess I feel that customizing recipes should be part of learning, so people should be able to do that. But you are right, then they wouldn't be selling their products.

Maybe these products will just get someone's foot in the door and then if they like it they will branch out into making their own recipes. It's probably not much different than someone beginning to learn to bake by using premade cookie dough, then eventually making their own recipes from scratch.

Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[DeeAnna]

...omeone was asking what the percentages of coconut, palm, and olive oil... The company said that that they are sorry, but the percentages are proprietary information. I went to the product page for the oil blend, and it calls the soap "cold pressed soap"...

I agree with Artemis that they don't need to disclose the exact percentages of their fat blend. I guess what I find a little concerning is if they used "cold press", they aren't all that well informed.

While I know beginners often use that phrase, it's not something I'd expect to hear from someone who purports to be knowledgeable about soap making. It doesn't take a lot of study to know the correct term is cold PROCESS, not cold PRESS.

 

[Marie_with_an_e]

There’s a maker on IG that I follow who started advertising that their soap is ‘fresh’ because of their super duper innovative formula, so when you order from them you’re not getting products that have ‘sat for weeks on a shelf’. The implication was that soap that’s fully cured has been sitting around for weeks and this makes it worse because it’s not fresh. I commented that there’s no formula good enough to overcome the time needed for the crystalline structure to form, and that even though fresh soap is usable, it’s not the best that it can be. Her response? ‘Try our soap yourself and see!’ No thank you, you just told me everything I need to know about your process and motivation.

 

[MrsZ]

There’s a maker on IG that I follow who started advertising that their soap is ‘fresh’ because of their super duper innovative formula, so when you order from them you’re not getting products that have ‘sat for weeks on a shelf’. The implication was that soap that’s fully cured has been sitting around for weeks and this makes it worse because it’s not fresh. I commented that there’s no formula good enough to overcome the time needed for the crystalline structure to form, and that even though fresh soap is usable, it’s not the best that it can be. Her response? ‘Try our soap yourself and see!’ No thank you, you just told me everything I need to know about your process and motivation.

My "fresh" soaps certainly don't feel that nice compared to my cured ones!

 

[paradisi]

I see products that seem to be geared towards helping people learn to make soap,

... You are assuming that's why they're selling kits.

I would say, no. They're selling kits for the same reason the person is selling "fresh" soap, which is to get money quickly.

While I agree they needn't divulge their formula.. I wouldn't ... they do seem to be on the profit first end of the equation, not on the longterm soapmaker end of it.

You may find that ignoring them and spending time making soap will teach you more and irk you less.

 

[MrsZ]

... You are assuming that's why they're selling kits.

I would say, no. They're selling kits for the same reason the person is selling "fresh" soap, which is to get money quickly.

While I agree they needn't divulge their formula.. I wouldn't ... they do seem to be on the profit first end of the equation, not on the longterm soapmaker end of it.

You may find that ignoring them and spending time making soap will teach you more and irk you less.

You're right, I'm sorry. It was probably not the best idea for me to make that last post.

 

[dmcgee5034]

... You are assuming that's why they're selling kits.

I would say, no. They're selling kits for the same reason the person is selling "fresh" soap, which is to get money quickly.

While I agree they needn't divulge their formula.. I wouldn't ... they do seem to be on the profit first end of the equation, not on the longterm soapmaker end of it.

You may find that ignoring them and spending time making soap will teach you more and irk you less.

Great points, @paradisi - and geared towards people saying “let’s do a project today” and wanting quick results, not 4-6 weeks later we can see how we did. Immediate satisfaction in sacrifice of better quality.