Melted Soap / Ridges

[Dean]

Hello Soaperts,

I made 100% coconut oil CP soap, superfatted 20%, equal parts water and sodium hydroxide, and cured one week due to the full water discount. Even tho it was hard in the shower, it shrunk really fast and looks melted. See pic of soap b4 and after a few showers. Please advise to the cause and correction. Thx in advance.

 

[shunt2011]

A week isn’t a long enough cure. You need to cure your soap 4-6 weeks. CO soap won’t last as long as a more rounded recipe. Once cured make sure not to let it sit in water. Soap needs to be on a well drained soap dish.

 

[Dean]

A week isn’t a long enough cure. You need to cure your soap 4-6 weeks. CO soap won’t last as long as a more rounded recipe. Once cured make sure not to let it sit in water. Soap needs to be on a well drained soap dish.

Thx for the speedy response Shunt. I wonder y CO soap doesn't last as long.

 

[DeeAnna]

Because the fatty acids in coconut oil make a soap that is highly soluble in water. Fatty acids from tallow, lard, and palm (not palm kernel) make a soap that is less soluble, so soap with more of these fats will last longer.

Most soap recipes use a blend of fats, not just one type of fat. If you pick your fats with care, this will optimize the positive qualities of each type of fatty acid in your soap.

Letting your soap cure sufficiently long will help any soap to last as long as it possibly can. Also letting the soap dry properly between uses will maximize its life.

 

[Dean]

Thx DeeAnna. Trying to avoid palm and animal products. Will try a longer cure.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you truly want a decently long lived soap then you have to include the stearic and palmitic acids that are found in fats such as lard, tallow, palm, and butters. Using butters comes at a higher cost than using the other fats, but if you're crunchy, that's the direction to head.

 

[earlene]

CO soap is highy water soluble. I don't know if it would last much longer if you had cured it sufficiently as I do not use 100% soaps for anything but laundry (no SF), but it would definitely benefit.

One week cure is not long enough for any soap. Water loss is not the only thing that happens during cure.

For more info on what happens during cure, see this: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&page=2

 

[Dean]

CO soap is highy water soluble. I don't know if it would last much longer if you had cured it sufficiently as I do not use 100% soaps for anything but laundry (no SF), but it would definitely benefit.

One week cure is not long enough for any soap. Water loss is not the only thing that happens during cure.

For more info on what happens during cure, see this: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&page=2

Thx Granny Earlene!

If you truly want a decently long lived soap then you have to include the stearic and palmitic acids that are found in fats such as lard, tallow, palm, and butters. Using butters comes at a higher cost than using the other fats, but if you're crunchy, that's the direction to head.

Thx. Any recommendations for a veg butter and proportion?

 

[DeeAnna]

I use lard and tallow, not butters, so I can't help you. Maybe others will chime in here. The search engine on this forum also works really well -- I'm sure you can find recipe ideas with a search or two.

 

[earlene]

As a vegetarian, I began using only soft oils and cocoa butter and shea butter initially, as they were the easiest to come by at first. Later I had the opportunity to use mango butter, a luxury in soap, that many use only in leave-on body products. There are others, even more expensive that you can experiment with as well, but I still mostly use only cocoa butter and shea butter in soap rather than the expensive butters.

The commonly recommended usage rate for butters is roughly 5-15% for cocoa butter, 5-20% shea, and others vary as well. Here is one link with suggested amounts in soap: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

You can experiment as make single oil soaps and you will find they all make soap as well as what properties each oil might bring to the soap. Or just experiment on your own, because each person's skin is slightly different in what it likes and responds well to, like for some CO is not well tolerated. Some have allergies and sensitivities to certain oils. It really is a personal thing what one likes best in soap.

Soy wax is another good soap hardening oil to use. It is not like your traditional Waxes, and can be used at higher percentages than cocoa butter to produce a harder bar of soap that is not brittle. If interested, do a search on this forum for soywax and give the results a read. Here are a couple of links to get you started if interested:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240 . (Several posts in that thread delve into using soy wax in soap.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/palm-free.68838/#post-682820 (A few posts in this thread discuss using soy wax in soap.)

And here is a link on the subject of how to design the 'absolute best' soap formula (best is a relative term, though, so keep in mind people's skin vary as do our reasons for using or not using certain oils vary): https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

 

[psfred]

Here's an interesting recipe to try:

40% soy oil
40% canola oil
20% soy wax (148 I think, fully hydrogenated, no additives).

I made this to use some old frying oil that had donuts fried in it, several years ago. Came out yellowish and soft, gradually firmed up and is now quite hard. I superfatted with lard after HP at 0% superfat to make sure I had saponified all the used oils (so they wouldn't go rancid on me) but you could use cocoa butter or something else.

Very nice soap, high in oleic acid and very skin friendly. No signs of DOS seven months later, either, quite to my surprise since some of my lard recipes are getting yellow corners.

Probably need to HP with the soy wax, it may not stay melted at room temp, but you could try CP and see what happens.

No animal products, plenty of stearic acid so it lasts well, and skin friendly. Vegetable oil is cheap, and usually roughly half and half soy and canola oil, or you could buy them separately. Or use HO safflower or sunflower instead of soy oil.

 

[earlene]

I use CP with soy wax without any problems. Starting temps are not room temp, but with any melted hard oil, temps always start out higher than room temp unless it's really hot where you live to begin with.

 

[Dean]

As a vegetarian, I began using only soft oils and cocoa butter and shea butter initially, as they were the easiest to come by at first. Later I had the opportunity to use mango butter, a luxury in soap, that many use only in leave-on body products. There are others, even more expensive that you can experiment with as well, but I still mostly use only cocoa butter and shea butter in soap rather than the expensive butters.

The commonly recommended usage rate for butters is roughly 5-15% for cocoa butter, 5-20% shea, and others vary as well. Here is one link with suggested amounts in soap: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

You can experiment as make single oil soaps and you will find they all make soap as well as what properties each oil might bring to the soap. Or just experiment on your own, because each person's skin is slightly different in what it likes and responds well to, like for some CO is not well tolerated. Some have allergies and sensitivities to certain oils. It really is a personal thing what one likes best in soap.

Soy wax is another good soap hardening oil to use. It is not like your traditional Waxes, and can be used at higher percentages than cocoa butter to produce a harder bar of soap that is not brittle. If interested, do a search on this forum for soywax and give the results a read. Here are a couple of links to get you started if interested:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240 . (Several posts in that thread delve into using soy wax in soap.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/palm-free.68838/#post-682820 (A few posts in this thread discuss using soy wax in soap.)

And here is a link on the subject of how to design the 'absolute best' soap formula (best is a relative term, though, so keep in mind people's skin vary as do our reasons for using or not using certain oils vary): https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

As a vegetarian, I began using only soft oils and cocoa butter and shea butter initially, as they were the easiest to come by at first. Later I had the opportunity to use mango butter, a luxury in soap, that many use only in leave-on body products. There are others, even more expensive that you can experiment with as well, but I still mostly use only cocoa butter and shea butter in soap rather than the expensive butters.

The commonly recommended usage rate for butters is roughly 5-15% for cocoa butter, 5-20% shea, and others vary as well. Here is one link with suggested amounts in soap: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

You can experiment as make single oil soaps and you will find they all make soap as well as what properties each oil might bring to the soap. Or just experiment on your own, because each person's skin is slightly different in what it likes and responds well to, like for some CO is not well tolerated. Some have allergies and sensitivities to certain oils. It really is a personal thing what one likes best in soap.

Soy wax is another good soap hardening oil to use. It is not like your traditional Waxes, and can be used at higher percentages than cocoa butter to produce a harder bar of soap that is not brittle. If interested, do a search on this forum for soywax and give the results a read. Here are a couple of links to get you started if interested:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240 . (Several posts in that thread delve into using soy wax in soap.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/palm-free.68838/#post-682820 (A few posts in this thread discuss using soy wax in soap.)

And here is a link on the subject of how to design the 'absolute best' soap formula (best is a relative term, though, so keep in mind people's skin vary as do our reasons for using or not using certain oils vary): https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

Thx again Earlene. High 5 to a fellow veg. Read ur provided links. Got so much to learn. Discovered a cpl other issues with my 100% CO 20% SF...its very drying and requires having to reapply soap to the wash cloth more often than my Dr. Bronner’s.

Here's an interesting recipe to try:

40% soy oil
40% canola oil
20% soy wax (148 I think, fully hydrogenated, no additives).

I made this to use some old frying oil that had donuts fried in it, several years ago. Came out yellowish and soft, gradually firmed up and is now quite hard. I superfatted with lard after HP at 0% superfat to make sure I had saponified all the used oils (so they wouldn't go rancid on me) but you could use cocoa butter or something else.

Very nice soap, high in oleic acid and very skin friendly. No signs of DOS seven months later, either, quite to my surprise since some of my lard recipes are getting yellow corners.

Probably need to HP with the soy wax, it may not stay melted at room temp, but you could try CP and see what happens.

No animal products, plenty of stearic acid so it lasts well, and skin friendly. Vegetable oil is cheap, and usually roughly half and half soy and canola oil, or you could buy them separately. Or use HO safflower or sunflower instead of soy oil.

Thx Fred. If it smells like donuts I bet it would b great in an AM shower!

As a vegetarian, I began using only soft oils and cocoa butter and shea butter initially, as they were the easiest to come by at first. Later I had the opportunity to use mango butter, a luxury in soap, that many use only in leave-on body products. There are others, even more expensive that you can experiment with as well, but I still mostly use only cocoa butter and shea butter in soap rather than the expensive butters.

The commonly recommended usage rate for butters is roughly 5-15% for cocoa butter, 5-20% shea, and others vary as well. Here is one link with suggested amounts in soap: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

You can experiment as make single oil soaps and you will find they all make soap as well as what properties each oil might bring to the soap. Or just experiment on your own, because each person's skin is slightly different in what it likes and responds well to, like for some CO is not well tolerated. Some have allergies and sensitivities to certain oils. It really is a personal thing what one likes best in soap.

Soy wax is another good soap hardening oil to use. It is not like your traditional Waxes, and can be used at higher percentages than cocoa butter to produce a harder bar of soap that is not brittle. If interested, do a search on this forum for soywax and give the results a read. Here are a couple of links to get you started if interested:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240 . (Several posts in that thread delve into using soy wax in soap.)
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/palm-free.68838/#post-682820 (A few posts in this thread discuss using soy wax in soap.)

And here is a link on the subject of how to design the 'absolute best' soap formula (best is a relative term, though, so keep in mind people's skin vary as do our reasons for using or not using certain oils vary): https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

Has anyone tried the 60% Cocoa Butter 40% CO recipie mentioned in the http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/ article that Earlene referenced?

 

[earlene]

I have not personally tried that one. I would be interested how it turns out if anyone has or plans to give it a try.

 

[Dean]

Does castor oil extend lather?

Here's an interesting recipe to try:

40% soy oil
40% canola oil
20% soy wax (148 I think, fully hydrogenated, no additives).

Hi Fred,

What was the hardness of the 20% soy wax soap at unmolding? Also, do you remember what the water to lye ratio was?

 

[psfred]

Full water, hot process. Soap was softer than my usual HP soaps when I cut it, and stayed softer for a month or two. Quite hard now, very nice soap. I would not CP 20% soy wax for fear it would "wax out" before gel stage.

 

[earlene]

Full water, hot process. Soap was softer than my usual HP soaps when I cut it, and stayed softer for a month or two. Quite hard now, very nice soap. I would not CP 20% soy wax for fear it would "wax out" before gel stage.

I CP'd 30% soy wax, and had no problems. (Pictured here.)

 

[Zany_in_CO]

For what it's worth, 10% soy wax in soap is the recommended % from a soap guru I once knew. I tried it just to use up some I had on hand. I didn't think it added anything special to the finished product. I prefer 30% hydrogenated soy oil, mostly as a sub for lard / tallow /palm because it's cheaper (buy locally from Costco), and for those customers who don't want soaps with animal fats or palm oil in them. I really like (organic) soy wax in products I make that go into lip balm / body balm / cuticle balm / deodorant / solid perfume, etc. tubes.

 

[Dean]

I CP'd 30% soy wax, and had no problems. (Pictured here.)

Nice looking soap.