Masterbatching Lye

[Kcryss]

I see that a lot of people masterbatch their lye solution. I've not been tempted to do it yet, but curious about why it's done.

For myself, it takes a lot longer to get all the oils into the pot then it does to measure the water and lye. I mix my water and additives while waiting for the oils to heat. I measure the lye into a lidded plastic container and cap until ready for use.

On occasion I've pre measured the lye into seperate containers, enough for one batch of my regular recipe.

Does masterbatching save a lot of time? Are there other advantages to masterbatching?

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I see that a lot of people masterbatch their lye solution. I've not been tempted to do it yet, but curious about why it's done.

For myself, it takes a lot longer to get all the oils into the pot then it does to measure the water and lye. I mix my water and additives while waiting for the oils to heat. I measure the lye into a lidded plastic container and cap until ready for use.

On occasion I've pre measured the lye into seperate containers, enough for one batch of my regular recipe.

Does masterbatching save a lot of time? Are there other advantages to masterbatching?

It is helpful to me when I plan to do a number of batches in succession, even over several days. In addition, I only have to deal with the lye fumes once for that set of batches, which is preferable to me.

 

[Kcryss]

It is helpful to me when I plan to do a number of batches in succession, even over several days. In addition, I only have to deal with the lye fumes once for that set of batches, which is preferable to me.

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't think about the fumes.

 

[AliOop]

@Kcryss you do mostly HP, yes? That means you don't have to wait for your lye solution to cool, because you are planning to heat everything up anyway.

But CP soapers typically want to soap at 100ºF or less (often significantly cooler). That can make for quite a long wait for a fresh lye solution to cool off (unless one has planned ahead with distilled water ice cubes, refrigerated distilled water, etc. - which adds more time to the prep).

MB lye solution at room temp eliminates all the cooling time. It also eliminates the time it otherwise takes to get out the lye and water for every single batch, then measure them both, and then mix them. Instead, I only do that entire MB process every few months, instead of every soaping session. I can make one large container of MB lye solution to make 10 batches, in the same amount of time that it takes me to make just one container for a single batch of soap. Now when I want to soap, I can complete the process in far less time - a huge bonus in my busy life!

As an extra bonus, this also means that my lye container is only opened once every few months - so it isn't exposed to as much air.

 

[cmzaha]

As Alison said above. I usually masterbatched 4 gallons at a time. Two gallons with silk cocoons added and two without.

 

[Kcryss]

@Kcryss you do mostly HP, yes? That means you don't have to wait for your lye solution to cool, because you are planning to heat everything up anyway.

But CP soapers typically want to soap at 100ºF or less (often significantly cooler). That can make for quite a long wait for a fresh lye solution to cool off (unless one has planned ahead with distilled water ice cubes, refrigerated distilled water, etc. - which adds more time to the prep).

MB lye solution at room temp eliminates all the cooling time. It also eliminates the time it otherwise takes to get out the lye and water for every single batch, then measure them both, and then mix them. Instead, I only do that entire MB process every few months, instead of every soaping session. I can make one large container of MB lye solution to make 10 batches, in the same amount of time that it takes me to make just one container for a single batch of soap. Now when I want to soap, I can complete the process in far less time - a huge bonus in my busy life!

As an extra bonus, this also means that my lye container is only opened once every few months - so it isn't exposed to as much air.

Thanks!! Masterbatching makes sooo much more sense to me now. For the life of me I couldn't understand why anyone would want to mix their lye ahead of time.
You're correct, I only do HP so for me it's just a few minutes wait time until it cools down to 180. I can certainly understand not wanting to continue waiting for a lower temp.

As Alison said above. I usually masterbatched 4 gallons at a time. Two gallons with silk cocoons added and two without.

Wow, that seems like a lot ... but thinking about it, my batches are 2100grams of oil with close to 1000g of water. So I could see making that much at one time. To be honest, it would freak me out, I would worry about spilling it when trying to weigh it out.
I know, volcanoes don't bother me, but pre-mixed lye makes me cringe. lol
I've never tried silk, it seems anytime I've attempted to buy it, they are out of stock. I've heard good things about it though.

 

[Vicki C]

I masterbatch my lye for the same reasons others mentioned above - and, since I started buying lye in 50 pound buckets, I refill 2 pound lye containers after I buy it but I don’t bother with getting the amount perfect. Then, when it’s time to masterbatch, I weigh the lye (tare the container) and I have a spreadsheet for how much water to use, as well as sodium lactate, sodium gluconate, and sorbitol. I usually mix it outside to avoid fumes / let them disperse. Makes my soapmaking so much easier.

 

[dmcgee5034]

I am a much smaller scale MB’er. I only do 2 pounds of lye at a time, but having enough ready for ~6 batches of soap is worth it in the process for me. It’s the same scale I do my MB fats, and I weigh that out into batch size containers. I also make little pre measured portion cups of sorbitol and sodium citrate. Doing the prep gives me a soapy thing to do even when I’m not making soap, which I like, and I feel like I can make soap any time I want to pretty efficiently.

I keep my MB lye in a secondary container for safety, and open the bottle in the sink. Knock on wood, it’s never spilled.

 

[AliOop]

You're correct, I only do HP so for me it's just a few minutes wait time until it cools down to 180. I can certainly understand not wanting to continue waiting for a lower temp.

I didn't realize that some HP soapers would wait for lye solution to cool off at all. When I make HP soap, I measure, combine, stir until dissolved, then immediately pour into the oils and get that stick-blender going. Can you tell I'm not the most patient person? Seriously, though, it didn't occur to me to worry about the lye temp in HP (I do pay attention to the oil temps to avoid volcanoes).

You could still to a 50% MB lye solution for HP. When you are ready to soap, and you add additional liquid to reach your desired lye concentration, the lye solution will heat up again. Maybe not to 180ºF, but it definitely gets quite a bit hotter.

 

[cmzaha]

Thanks!! Masterbatching makes sooo much more sense to me now. For the life of me I couldn't understand why anyone would want to mix their lye ahead of time.
You're correct, I only do HP so for me it's just a few minutes wait time until it cools down to 180. I can certainly understand not wanting to continue waiting for a lower temp.

Wow, that seems like a lot ... but thinking about it, my batches are 2100grams of oil with close to 1000g of water. So I could see making that much at one time. To be honest, it would freak me out, I would worry about spilling it when trying to weigh it out.
I know, volcanoes don't bother me, but pre-mixed lye makes me cringe. lol
I've never tried silk, it seems anytime I've attempted to buy it, they are out of stock. I've heard good things about it though.

I always purchased silk cocoons from Aliexpress and would usually drop 10 in my gallon jug to dissolve.

 

[Kcryss]

I masterbatch my lye for the same reasons others mentioned above - and, since I started buying lye in 50 pound buckets, I refill 2 pound lye containers after I buy it but I don’t bother with getting the amount perfect. Then, when it’s time to masterbatch, I weigh the lye (tare the container) and I have a spreadsheet for how much water to use, as well as sodium lactate, sodium gluconate, and sorbitol. I usually mix it outside to avoid fumes / let them disperse. Makes my soapmaking so much easier.

I might have to start buying in larger quanities but not ready yet for 50lbs. Hopefully some day.
I have spreadsheets for everything, Gotta love MS Office products. lol

I am a much smaller scale MB’er. I only do 2 pounds of lye at a time, but having enough ready for ~6 batches of soap is worth it in the process for me. It’s the same scale I do my MB fats, and I weigh that out into batch size containers. I also make little pre measured portion cups of sorbitol and sodium citrate. Doing the prep gives me a soapy thing to do even when I’m not making soap, which I like, and I feel like I can make soap any time I want to pretty efficiently.

I keep my MB lye in a secondary container for safety, and open the bottle in the sink. Knock on wood, it’s never spilled.

Hmm ... I've never tried MB the fats, but I do weigh out everything into buckets by batch. Works great for getting off work and starting a batch right away. Soo much faster. I love the idea of pre-measuring the additives, that would help speed things up even more. Thanks for the idea!

Glad you've never had a spill, opening in the sink is a great pre-caution.

I didn't realize that some HP soapers would wait for lye solution to cool off at all. When I make HP soap, I measure, combine, stir until dissolved, then immediately pour into the oils and get that stick-blender going. Can you tell I'm not the most patient person? Seriously, though, it didn't occur to me to worry about the lye temp in HP (I do pay attention to the oil temps to avoid volcanoes).

You could still to a 50% MB lye solution for HP. When you are ready to soap, and you add additional liquid to reach your desired lye concentration, the lye solution will heat up again. Maybe not to 180ºF, but it definitely gets quite a bit hotter.

I used to pour right away, not sure when I started waiting until it cooled a bit. Guess I'm getting more cautious with age. lol
I think I will take your advice and save some liquid laundry detergent containers and give it a try. Just reducing the fumes alone would make it worthwhile.

I always purchased silk cocoons from Aliexpress and would usually drop 10 in my gallon jug to dissolve.

I've been tempted a number of times to use AliExpress but always backed out. Do you purchase from there often and have you had any trouble?

 

[AliOop]

Hmm ... I've never tried MB the fats, but I do weigh out everything into buckets by batch. Works great for getting off work and starting a batch right away.

Psssst.... that IS master-batching, just on a smaller scale.

 

[Kcryss]

Psssst.... that IS master-batching, just on a smaller scale.

LOL, ok, good point.

 

[justsomeguy]

So, question. When you master batch lye and put it in the container as you use it it fills with air, right? Isn't that bad for the lye solution? I'm so close to going the master batch route to speed up soaping...

 

[AliOop]

So, question. When you master batch lye and put it in the container as you use it it fills with air, right? Isn't that bad for the lye solution? I'm so close to going the master batch route to speed up soaping...

You are correct; however, I haven’t had any problems with it using a laundry jug, even when I get to the bottom of the jug. The solution is a little thick and gloopy, but works just as well.

The only trouble I’ve ever had was letting my room get too cold. During winter, we let the house temp drop down below 65F at night. Took me awhile to figure out that was why I was getting chunks of lye “ice” at the bottom of my jug. It didn’t help that my storage cabinet sits on an outside wall, which got even colder.

After I’d poured two batches down the drain, I learned that I could have saved them simply by adding more distilled water, so they would heat up and hopefully re-dissolve the NaOH that had precipitated out of solution. Expensive lesson!

 

[Nona'sFarm]

The only trouble I’ve ever had was letting my room get too cold. During winter, we let the house temp drop down below 65F at night. Took me awhile to figure out that was why I was getting chunks of lye “ice” at the bottom of my jug. It didn’t help that my storage cabinet sits on an outside wall, which got even colder.

I have Seedling Heating Mats that are very useful for many things, besides growing seedlings. In the winter I put one on the counter and set my MB lye container on it. It stays nice and fluid, but doesn't get hot. I have also used them in the winter to keep honey fluid and to set a pan of rising bread on. Though I find the CPOP method works for me, they probably could be used to gel soap, too.
Here is a picture of what one looks like -

 

[AliOop]

Thank you @Nona'sFarm that’s awesome! I may ask for one of those for Mother’s Day.

 

[justsomeguy]

You are correct; however, I haven’t had any problems with it using a laundry jug, even when I get to the bottom of the jug. The solution is a little thick and gloopy, but works just as well.

The only trouble I’ve ever had was letting my room get too cold. During winter, we let the house temp drop down below 65F at night. Took me awhile to figure out that was why I was getting chunks of lye “ice” at the bottom of my jug. It didn’t help that my storage cabinet sits on an outside wall, which got even colder.

After I’d poured two batches down the drain, I learned that I could have saved them simply by adding more distilled water, so they would heat up and hopefully re-dissolve the NaOH that had precipitated out of solution. Expensive lesson!

I'm in. Found a 2.5 gallon hdpe carboy (thanks @DeeAnna!) and a 3 gallon pp#5 bucket to hold it

I'm in. Found a 2.5 gallon hdpe carboy (thanks @DeeAnna!) and a 3 gallon pp#5 bucket to hold it

I've got a question about adding in the impurity. I assume that the weight of any sodium carbonate added in to the batch needs to be subtracted from the water. Is that correct? And how much do you add?

 

[Vicki C]

You are correct; however, I haven’t had any problems with it using a laundry jug, even when I get to the bottom of the jug. The solution is a little thick and gloopy, but works just as well.

The only trouble I’ve ever had was letting my room get too cold. During winter, we let the house temp drop down below 65F at night. Took me awhile to figure out that was why I was getting chunks of lye “ice” at the bottom of my jug. It didn’t help that my storage cabinet sits on an outside wall, which got even colder.

After I’d poured two batches down the drain, I learned that I could have saved them simply by adding more distilled water, so they would heat up and hopefully re-dissolve the NaOH that had precipitated out of solution. Expensive lesson!

I used to masterbatch at 1:1 for my lye but my work space doesn’t stay warm enough. - same thing kept happening to me, it turned into kind of a hassle for me. So now I masterbatch at my regular lye strength.
@Kcryss yes spreadsheets all the way! I use google sheets which have enough functionality for what I’m doing. I track prices for EVERYTHING, track sales at each market, I have a searchable spreadsheet of what soap I made on what date (that leads me back to my soap notebooks), I have templates for colorant and fragrance testing. And I think our methods are similar I buy 50 lb buckets of lye for the cost savings, it takes me a while to get through it! If I could buy lye locally in bulk I would, I haven’t found a source near me. Lye prices, as with everything else, have gone up lately.

 

[Kcryss]

I used to masterbatch at 1:1 for my lye but my work space doesn’t stay warm enough. - same thing kept happening to me, it turned into kind of a hassle for me. So now I masterbatch at my regular lye strength.
@Kcryss yes spreadsheets all the way! I use google sheets which have enough functionality for what I’m doing. I track prices for EVERYTHING, track sales at each market, I have a searchable spreadsheet of what soap I made on what date (that leads me back to my soap notebooks), I have templates for colorant and fragrance testing. And I think our methods are similar I buy 50 lb buckets of lye for the cost savings, it takes me a while to get through it! If I could buy lye locally in bulk I would, I haven’t found a source near me. Lye prices, as with everything else, have gone up lately.

Haha! Nice! I now have more spreadsheet idea's! Currently I keep all of my inventory on one spreadsheet with cost per gram. Then all my formula spreadsheets do a vlookup back to the inventory sheet and calculates cost per batch, so each formula spreadsheet includes all costs per batch including packaging and labels.
I've just recently realized that I need to track market sales ... go figure I hadn't realized that sooner. Amazing what tax season brings to mind. lol