Mango butter

[squeakycleanuk]

Anyone else had problems with using mango butter in soap? I've used it twice now and both times it ruined the batch. The first time it didn't melt properly during the heat transfer stage (I soap at room temp) and although I tried to stick blend the lumps out, I couldn't because it reached trace and then I couldn't do anything. So the 2nd time I melted the butter first but as soon as I added the lye water to it, it just clumped and solidified and I just found myself in the same situation again! This have never happened to me with shea and cocoa, so I don't understand whats going on. Anyone any ideas?

 

[galaxyMLP]

I've soaped w/ mango butter and have not had this problem before so this is just my guess as to why you might be having problems.

What were the temps of your lye solution and your oil solution before you added them together?

You need to keep them at at least 100 *F to get it so it doesn't solidify right away. If you have a recipe with all liquid oils except MB and you keep the MB down really low, you could probably get away with soaping cooler but for the most part you should keep it at or above 100F until trace. I have a recipe w/ 15% shea and I acutally soap at 105-110 just so it doesnt re-solidify. Mango, shea and cocoa butter all have stearic acid contents of 30-45% with mango butter having the highest content.

The other thing is that you could be dealing with old mango butter that has a higher content of *free* fatty acids. Mango butter is very high in triglycerides that are made up of stearic acid. If those triglycerides break down into their fatty acids (free fatty acids), you will have free stearic acid in your mango butter which will react almost instantly with the lye and you will get clumps. It can smell fine and have this happening in it; it doesnt have to smell rancid although if it does smell off it is likely that you already have higher free fatty acids.

 

[IrishLass]

I soap with mango in 2 of my formulas. In one, I use it at 30%, and in the other, I use it at 5%.

I found out the hard way that I really need to keep an eye on my temps when working with certain fats- namely hard butters like mango, kokum, hydrogenated PKO, etc.... But not only do I have to keep an eye on the temp of the fat, I also need to keep an eye on the temp of my lye solution, and I also need to take into consideration the temp of other additives I'll be adding.

My goal in all of this temp watching is not only to keep the temp of my melted fats above the melting point of the hardest fat in my formula, but also to make sure that anything that I add to the melted fats will not lower that temp significantly enough to cause things to precipitate out of melted suspension before the lye reaction can kick in and keep things in line.

For me, the sweet spot is to have both my melted oils and my lye solution no lower than 110F. It's okay if they are lopsided at higher temps than that, but I don't like either one to get lower than 110F. When I soap this way with these types of hard fats, things stay in suspension for me, even when I add my room temp FO and other room temp additives.


IrishLass

 

[kumudini]

I had no issues. I used mango butter for the first time today, just a little while ago. since this is a new recipe, I had to measure out everything, melt everything rather than just warm my masterbatch. I used 10% each of the three butters along with palm and coconut and olive and castor. melted my hard oils and butters first. Cocoa butter was the last to melt. temp was 132. Added olive and castor, temp came down to 120. since I used masterbatched 50% lye, I added into the oils my additional water in which I added sodium citrate, sugar and aloe powder. temp down to high 90s. added my SL as well into oils. SBed thoroughly. by the time I mixed my RT or may be even colder lye the mixture temp was low 80s. no clumping at any time. but mango butter is 42% stearic, so its quite possible to false trace if used at higher percentages. I will make sure to soap a little warmer next time.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I will also post my process!

For my recipe with 15% shea and 40% palm I actually melt my oils completely to about 130-140 F. My lye is master-batched and is at room temp. I let my oils cool to about 115 degrees and I add my RT lye to it. This brings the oil/lye blend to about 105 degrees give or take 5 degrees. It works really well!

One time though, I was being impatient and added the lye when my oils were about 140 and man did that thing take off. I had taffy soap within a matter of minutes.

 

[IrishLass]

I will also post my process!

For my recipe with 15% shea and 40% palm I actually melt my oils completely to about 130-140 F.

I should have mentioned that that's what I do too- I first heat my fats to a higher temp (usually somewhere between 125F and 135F and then let them slowly cool down to no lower than 110F. I figure that in the 15 minutes or so that they are cooling down, it kinda sorta maybe tempers them some.


IrishLass

 

[amd]

I only use mango butter in hot process. Works like a dream.

 

[JuneP]

I think it depends on your over all recipe. My latest recipe, the one I used for the October hidden feather challenge, has 48% hard oils. 9% of those are the MB and the rest is Coconut, Lard and Palm. I cut the mango in small pieces before melting with the other hard oils, then added them to my other oils which we already mixed with my premixed oats, kaolin and cream. I let everything cool down to room temperature.

My aim was to barely use the stick blender, but I wound up using it a bit past emulsion because I was concerned about false trace because of the mango butter. Then I added my lye solution and mixed carefully with a large spatula , and then poured out the batter into individual cups and then added my premixed micas and used a small spatula to mix those in.

I also used the larger spatula in the base batch. Things would have stayed slowed down had I not decided to put all 4 of the center colors in individual squeezy bottles. It was only in the very end which things thickened up a bit but not unworkable. Next time I will make sure I just use the blender to emulsification and not trace.

Also, I had lowered by Lye Concentration to 28%, which dropped the water to 35.%% as opposed to past recipes I've done with full water.