Making my first cold process soap batch

[artemis]

cmzaha so if it's a selling ploy how and why do people "legally" sell essential oils and butters and list benefits with out being charged on a daily basis?

My guess would be man-power. Have you seen the gazillion handmade soap sellers on Etsy alone? They do check up on people, though. Also, they don't storm in and charge you and cart you away. It starts with letters and a visit and explanations for how to bring your business into compliance. They aren't aiming to put people out of business, just to get them to operate within the law. There's a good article floating around here somewhere written by a seller who had this happen.

Edit: I found the article: https://www.soapqueen.com/business/a-surprise-visit-from-the-fda/

 

[lindakschickens]

My guess would be man-power. Have you seen the gazillion handmade soap sellers on Etsy alone? They do check up on people, though. Also, they don't storm in and charge you and cart you away. It starts with letters and a visit and explanations for how to bring your business into compliance. They aren't aiming to put people out of business, just to get them to operate within the law. There's a good article floating around here somewhere written by a seller who had this happen.

Edit: I found the article: https://www.soapqueen.com/business/a-surprise-visit-from-the-fda/

Thanks for the link I'll read it for sure. Some sellers tho should be carted off. Still tho they need to have more concise info and all that.

I personally think the FDA tho wants to make it harder for people seeking to make and/or buy more natural products and label them. for example your soap smells like medicine and you state it smell like this because of x,y,z causing this smell and some one from the FDA see's that and goes oh well we can't have them saying it smells like medicine cuz it would be medicine and we can't have that, then and then proceeds to send letter(s) and then eventually show up on your doorstep and be a thorn in you side for how ever long and may or may not give you a fine etc. From what I gather they are more prone to go after smaller makers then larger ones.

Kinda sad tho push harsh chemical cosmetics with loads of claims and higher risks of skin sensitivities but freak out over how items with essential oils are labeled etc.

I will admit I'm quite curious how this issue works in the UK tho. Still feel bad for the people in the USA dealing with the FDA and hope at some point it does change to some extant for the better over essential oils labeling etc.

 

[shunt2011]

I have no problem with the labeling requirements. If you make soap and use essential oils, you can't guarantee anything survives the saponification process. So why would you make any medical claims, health claims etc.....The FDA doesn't search out small business, they go after big business (DoTerra, Young Living etc....they have been sited). Chances are low that they would find you but do you want to take that chance. I think a lot of time someone files a claim and then they get interested. However, I'm not willing to go there. Yes, I see it quite often and just shake my head. I'm honest with my customers, I also try to educate them on the all natural, my soap will cure this or treat that......Not worth it. I make my items because I enjoy it and take pride in it and it's good. I follow the rules and tell the truth.

I've had many customers tell me my products have helped with this or that, and that's awesome.

Our requirements in the US are much less strict then many countries.

 

[lindakschickens]

It depends on requirements tho don't it. You can say certain words or phrases if you will or risk fda getting involved. Like a store here touts that are more natural then what you find else were one of their products info page says this " There’s mineral rich kaolin to nourish, honey for its antibacterial properties, and we used just the right amount of peppermint oil to stimulate blood cells under the surface of your skin and leave your skin looking bright and refreshed." From the way I understand what you all are saying this would be a issue with the FDA.
Another product reads " with enzymic and brightening fresh apple juice and toning green tea. Witch hazel plays no tricks with its antibacterial and astringent gifts. Sicilian lemon and Brazilian orange oils help to brighten the skin" this to seems like it would fall a foul or am I wrong.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Lye destroys almost everything, or at the very least changes it completely.

You've got to get past this idea that ANYTHING - even the base oils themselves - is going to be the same after it's exposed to the lye. That's how you go from skin-nourishing coconut oil to harsh, stripping sodium cocoate.

Your witch hazel, green tea, apple, lemon, etc don't make it out the other side.

With a few well known exceptions such as sugar for bubbles, salt for hardness, or chelators, almost everything non-fat added to soap is "label appeal" for the gullible. There's nothing wrong with giving people what they want to buy as long as you don't make false claims (which is the genesis of the labeling regulations) but there is no point in fooling yourself in soaps you make for your own use, either.

 

[earlene]

As I am sure you are probably aware, in order for regulations to go into effect in any country or union of countries, the lawmakers have to agree. Before that, they review information from expert sources. The expert sources have to have some sort of consensus. In some cases, hearing or feedback is sought from the public or the affected parties, such as happened in the US when we were asked to give feedback on what 'natural' means. In any case, it is not an easy or even forthright process. It takes time, a lot of effort and real concern for the welfare of the consumer; and it can also be a balancing act. There's a whole lot more to it than that, but I'm long-winded enough as it is.

Regarding what is 'natural' or even 'organic' in the US, these are meaningless words in the arena of cosmetics and soaps. The FDA does NOT have definitions for them (reference) so labeling something natural or organic may be misleading, in that even the FDA recognizes 'natural' means something different to different people. And 'organic' is regulated by the USDA. So the label might state 'made with organic' whatever-ingredient, which is probably fine, but if the manufacturer claims '100% organic' it's the USDA who regulates that part of the labeling. The FDA still regulates the label as it pertains to the product's intended use and what it qualifies as by FDA definitions. Some soaps qualify as cosmetics and some qualify as drugs, which have stricter labeling requirements.

Regarding the soap (if it is a soap) in your post #104 in this thread: If that was sold in the US, it would qualify as a cosmetic because of the claims. Therefore, it would have to adhere to cosmetic regulations in the US if it were sold in the US. As long as the seller follows the rules for labeling the soap as a cosmetic, then they should be okay.

If they claim a cure or a psychological benefit or that the soap is for treating a medical condition, then it is a drug, and the drug regulations apply. (reference)

 

[lindakschickens]

BrewerGeorge I was wondering what they call lye and coconut oil cheers! true essential oil does change once interacting with lye (which now I wish I had money so I can see how it does change etc). In seeing how as you say those items don't make it out the other side then aint that basically making a false claim on the part the seller?

earlene I hope it does change. But both of the items I talked about in post #104 are face masks and are claimed to help with acne,inflamed skin, cools it (hope so the stuff is suppose to be kept in the fricken fridge) and makes your skin baby soft and a few other things.

I also just made another soap, just used the rest of my coco butter and shea butter as well as the little bit of aloe butter I had left weight it as coconut oil. also added 100% pure rose petal powder and some rose fragrance oil.
Apricot Kernel Oil. 80g
Castor Oil. 46g
Cocoa Butter. 106g.
Coconut Oil. 100g.
Lard. 126g.
Shea Butter. 90g
Water 108.24g
Milk 100g.
Lye. 75.32
also added about 1 teaspoon of sugar.
2 tablespoon rose petal powder
1 tablespoon rose fragrance oil.

Hardness 44
Cleansing 12
Conditioning 52
Bubbly 20
Creamy 39
Iodine 54
INS 150

I will say I expected to move fast but OMG this stuff set up so fricken fast I had barely made it putting into 6 mold and had more left over so I just plopped in a small plastic microwave plate gonna re batch it as it literally was almost impossible to get out of the container and off the spatula . It looks like mud and clay and smells like roses... Ok it really looks like a cow patty minus the undigested grass LOL.

 

[shunt2011]

Florals move like crazy most times. Also depends on temp. I do a honeysuckle rose that I separate, 2 colors then stir in my Fragrance and pour, as there's little time to do anything else.

 

[lindakschickens]

Florals move like crazy most times. Also depends on temp. I do a honeysuckle rose that I separate, 2 colors then stir in my Fragrance and pour, as there's little time to do anything else.

Oh that sounds like a wonderful combo.

I have a soap recipe for a castile- brine soap it calls for pure olive oil I assume any olive oil will do like olive pomance oil.

 

[shunt2011]

Some say Pomace can move a little faster. I've only used it a time or two years ago. I just use regular olive oil. Not the fancy stuff...that I use to cook with.

 

[lindakschickens]

Good to know. I'll buy the cheaper olive oil this time round.

 

[penelopejane]

In Australia the ACCC says a soap is a cosmetic and you can say:
Cosmetics:
Soothes dry skin
Covers pimples
Smooths wrinkles

You come under therapeutic goods laws if you say:
Therapeutic goods:
Relieves rashes
Heals pimples
Aids in repair of skin tissue

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/sy...labelling on cosmetics - Supplier guide_0.pdf

 

[penelopejane]

Oh that sounds like a wonderful combo.

I have a soap recipe for a castile- brine soap it calls for pure olive oil I assume any olive oil will do like olive pomance oil.

Many people believe that the harsh chemical used to extract the oils to make pomace oil transfer to the soap it produces.
I would not use pomace for soap.
I would not buy soap that has unspecified “olive oil” in it because some people (not in Australia because pomace isn’t easily available here) use it interchangeably.

 

[lindakschickens]

penelopejane thank you for posting the info for Australia I know that will more then likely help ppl like me in Australia cheers.

I can see using pomace olive oil in soap if that is what you can get. I'm going to be looking to see if I can getter then pomace for not to much more money. but you did just state a valid possible issue with pomace

 

[penelopejane]

penelopejane thank you for posting the info for Australia I know that will more then likely help ppl like me in Australia cheers.

I think Oz has come into line with the US & UK.
I think you too can legally use the phrases listed above to describe cosmetics replacing the “cures eczema” etc claims.

 

[lindakschickens]

Well I will tell y'all now I have a great husband why is that.. Well I managed to find some soap making stuff a little cheaper via ebay (some online soap retailers have ebay shops to that I did not know about) and that worked out cheaper and he bought me the lot including 10 kg in total of cocoa butter and shea butter brought them down to no more then $9 a kg (2.4lbs) so round $3.75 per 1.2lbs roughly for both not bad just need to know where to look and when to jump on it like a starving man on a Christmas ham lol. family is going to have loads of handmade soap this year for Christmas.

I do have a father in law who does not use deodorant and I was wondering if you good people could think of anything and everything I could dump in a batch of soap that might make a more pleasant smell linger for a bit I know that sounds horrible of me but I don't know how my mother in law shares the same bed.. I tell you what tho that is love lol

 

[amd]

I do have a father in law who does not use deodorant and I was wondering if you good people could think of anything and everything I could dump in a batch of soap that might make a more pleasant smell linger for a bit I know that sounds horrible of me but I don't know how my mother in law shares the same bed.. I tell you what tho that is love lol

Love indeed. I too have a father in law who doesn't seem to know where the deoderant aisle is. I don't think you'll get him completely odor free, but I have used baking soda and bentonite clay in a soap that made for my father in law. I don't see him often enough to know if the soap helps the BO problem, but he likes it enough to request more of it!

 

[lindakschickens]

Love indeed. I too have a father in law who doesn't seem to know where the deoderant aisle is. I don't think you'll get him completely odor free, but I have used baking soda and bentonite clay in a soap that made for my father in law. I don't see him often enough to know if the soap helps the BO problem, but he likes it enough to request more of it!

I assume the baking soda and clay are added at light trace stage?

 

[earlene]

Sadly, no matter how clean one gets with soap, once a smelly sweat starts, it stays on the skin until washed again. Depending on how your FIL eats (certain foods create more offensive odors) and what kind of work he does and how hard he works or plays, and of course, how often he bathes thoroughly, sweat is going to happen. You can have the strongest longest lasting fragrance in your soap, some that do linger on the skin, but no fragrance eliminates body odors. They just add another layer of odor. A discerning nose can smell the layers of odors. Maybe you MIL has a less discerning nose and that's how she handles the BO. Or maybe she cooks with ingredients that bring out stronger BO. Or maybe he has a medical condition that contributes to the body odor and soap is simply not the answer.

 

[lindakschickens]

Sadly, no matter how clean one gets with soap, once a smelly sweat starts, it stays on the skin until washed again. Depending on how your FIL eats (certain foods create more offensive odors) and what kind of work he does and how hard he works or plays, and of course, how often he bathes thoroughly, sweat is going to happen. You can have the strongest longest lasting fragrance in your soap, some that do linger on the skin, but no fragrance eliminates body odors. They just add another layer of odor. A discerning nose can smell the layers of odors. Maybe you MIL has a less discerning nose and that's how she handles the BO. Or maybe she cooks with ingredients that bring out stronger BO. Or maybe he has a medical condition that contributes to the body odor and soap is simply not the answer.

Oh no she smells him even asks us if we get him smellys (soaps) as gifts to get strong fragrance ones. I agree work plays a big role which he is retired so he does woodworking, so does diet but this is a typical Englishman who eats typical English foods that are quite frankly bland as can be and needs salt to the point you think you would dehydrate just eating the mount. But anything to remotely combat smell is a plus I just wonder if the soap he normally uses is cleansing enough I know that might not make sense but he can smell the same sometimes only a hr out of the bath (lived with them a few months in the spring a few years back before me and the hubby married). Seriously tho MIL must love him to bits as I throw the hubby out of the room when he stinks lol mean I know