Lotion bar recipe question

[KiwiMoose]

Update:
So this morning I used the lotion bar and it was much less greasy. It was a bit draggy, but I don't mind that. I rubbed some into my fingertips/cuticles and they look so much better already! I even used my hands to rub a bit of the residue through my hair ( which is dry and coarse) and it worked well as a hair 'wax' in a very small amount to settle frizz.
The only thing is, I think I put too much fragrance oil in it, coz i now smell like a garden full of rose geranium. I used 4g in a 200g batch, so maybe I should pare that back a bit?

 

[Juggsy]

A little bit greasy - should I wait a few days before using?

Yes. It will be. Soy wax especially doesn't help cut greasiness especially the way other waxes and esters do.

You could try adding a starch - tapioca has great consistency in LB.

You could also swap Shea for mango (it's less greasy). Or you could opt for oils and create a w/o lotion bar, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish which includes preserving, emulsifiers etc
@kiwi what percentage was the fragrance. You should use 0.5% max

 

[KiwiMoose]

Yes. It will be. Soy wax especially doesn't help cut greasiness especially the way other waxes and esters do.

You could try adding a starch - tapioca has great consistency in LB.

You could also swap Shea for mango (it's less greasy). Or you could opt for oils and create a w/o lotion bar, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish which includes preserving, emulsifiers etc
@kiwi what percentage was the fragrance. You should use 0.5% max

I have arrowroot and tapioca flour here - in my pantry. Would they be ok?
I'm thinking I should re-melt the bars, add in the starch, double the recipe but not the fragrance. How much starch would I use?
My current usage of fragrance is 2%, and by doubling the recipe it would reduce it to 1%.

 

[GemstonePony]

I have arrowroot and tapioca flour here - in my pantry. Would they be ok?
I'm thinking I should re-melt the bars, add in the starch, double the recipe but not the fragrance. How much starch would I use?
My current usage of fragrance is 2%, and by doubling the recipe it would reduce it to 1%.

Arrowroot powder is is my fave for body butter, but I haven't used it in lotion bars as much.

 

[Quanta]

A little bit greasy - should I wait a few days before using?

If they are too greasy, try replacing the Shea with something else like mango butter or babassu oil.

Interesting. I thought they'd be hard cuz of all your wax. And meadowfoam, rice bran, and apricot kernel usually absorb quickly into the skin.

Remember, soy "wax" isn't wax, it's partially hydrogenated soybean oil, which means that about two thirds of it is just plain soybean oil.

I'm not 100% scientifically sure about this but I don't think time does anything to lotion bars.

In my experience, using my formula, lotion bars need a good few days to cure, preferably a week. When I get custom orders, I tend to deliver them within a day or two after making them, and I make sure the recipient knows that they are going to feel different a week later. They typically feel oilier when they are brand new. But that is with my formula, which is quite different from yours, and it has been long enough since I used your formula that I don't remember what the cure time was, if there was one.

Update:
So this morning I used the lotion bar and it was much less greasy. It was a bit draggy, but I don't mind that. I rubbed some into my fingertips/cuticles and they look so much better already! I even used my hands to rub a bit of the residue through my hair ( which is dry and coarse) and it worked well as a hair 'wax' in a very small amount to settle frizz.
The only thing is, I think I put too much fragrance oil in it, coz i now smell like a garden full of rose geranium. I used 4g in a 200g batch, so maybe I should pare that back a bit?

I use 1% for most of the FOs that I use, less for a particularly strong FO and even less for EOs. I would only use 2% of an FO that was particularly weak or previously diluted, and never more than 1% of any EO.

Yes. It will be. Soy wax especially doesn't help cut greasiness especially the way other waxes and esters do.

I agree. I especially like esters. I use isopropyl myristate in mine at about 5%.

You could try adding a starch - tapioca has great consistency in LB.

I have never tried tapioca starch, although I have tried both cornstarch and arrowroot and like the feel. What kind of tapioca starch do you use? I know there are different kinds but I don't really know what the differences are.

You could also swap Shea for mango (it's less greasy).

I rarely use Shea in my lotions at all anymore due to its greasiness, and also its tendency to get grainy unless it's cooled exactly right. I've been using a blend of mango and babassu and it's really nice for those who prefer a less greasy lotion.

Arrowroot powder is is my fave for body butter, but I haven't used it in lotion bars as much.

I've used it in my lotion bars experimentally, and while I like the way it feels, I found that my bars were used up significantly faster. I think I also put quite a lot more than what's normal, so I'll let someone else comment on how much to use!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thank you @Quanta

I think I will just remelt and double the recipe for now ( thus making the fragrance load lower across the double batch). I used 2% of a cosmetic grade Rose Geranium EO ( which is a very strong fragrance in my soap so i should have known better).
On day three I'm much happier with it and it is not greasy at all. I asked my sisters ( I have three) if they would like to test this batch but I warned them about the strong fragrance and they all passed ( they all get migraines). At least I know I have some testers lines up for the lesser-fragranced rebatch.

I noticed I can get 'Veewax' here which is a vegan mimic of beeswax. I could try that in a future experiment perhaps?

 

[Juggsy]

Thank you @Quanta

I think I will just remelt and double the recipe for now ( thus making the fragrance load lower across the double batch). I used 2% of a cosmetic grade Rose Geranium EO ( which is a very strong fragrance in my soap so i should have known better).
On day three I'm much happier with it and it is not greasy at all. I asked my sisters ( I have three) if they would like to test this batch but I warned them about the strong fragrance and they all passed ( they all get migraines). At least I know I have some testers lines up for the lesser-fragranced rebatch.

I noticed I can get 'Veewax' here which is a vegan mimic of beeswax. I could try that in a future experiment perhaps?

I have arrowroot and tapioca flour here - in my pantry. Would they be ok?
I'm thinking I should re-melt the bars, add in the starch, double the recipe but not the fragrance. How much starch would I use?
My current usage of fragrance is 2%, and by doubling the recipe it would reduce it to 1%.

If fragrance oil you could get away with 1% with no issues. yes, arrowroot, tapioca, cornstarch, potato starch from the pantry cupboard.
I find tapioca less powdery does that make sense?

If they are too greasy, try replacing the Shea with something else like mango butter or babassu oil.

Illipe, tucuma, mango, babassu are my favourites. Although I am not a fan of greasiness, I have done the three ingredient Shea and IPM whipped butter and must admit that over winter (*cough cough*... autumn... *Cough cough*) I found it good after the shower on damp skin.

I use 1% for most of the FOs that I use, less for a particularly strong FO and even less for EOs. I would only use 2% of an FO that was particularly weak or previously diluted, and never more than 1% of any EO.

even at 1% it can cause irritation in leave on products. Just be aware of that. Also FOs with vallinin may discolour.

I agree. I especially like esters. I use isopropyl myristate in mine at about 5%.

I do like IPM in certain things but do think there are some better ones. I just got my hands on two Guebert esters. I haven't played with them yet as every beaker is being used for a big experiment on Myristyl Myristate.

I have never tried tapioca starch, although I have tried both cornstarch and arrowroot and like the feel. What kind of tapioca starch do you use? I know there are different kinds but I don't really know what the differences are.

Natrasorb is the other Tapioca used but it's not the same. They are totally different products. Natrasorb is able to absorb and carry large quantities of oils and anhydrous liquids (eg bath oils).
They process the tapioca starch in a mechanical manner that creates unique pockets that can carry the oils essentially in a solid, powder form. This means you are in effect adding "dry fragrance". Basically it's a fragrance carrier like polysorbates. It's also hydrophilic so that once the starch comes in contact with water, it immediately dissolves, releasing loaded oils, fragrances and/or emulsifiers, dispersing them. You only add a small amount. More information here

Tapioca is like arrowroot but I like both arrowroot and tapioca better than cornflour. It's not as powdery.

I rarely use Shea in my lotions at all anymore due to its greasiness, and also its tendency to get grainy unless it's cooled exactly right. I've been using a blend of mango and babassu and it's really nice for those who prefer a less greasy lotion.

I tend to leave Shea for soap and rinse off products. It's cheaper than the butters Iike so adding it to rinse off products does not bother me.

I've used it in my lotion bars experimentally, and while I like the way it feels, I found that my bars were used up significantly faster. I think I also put quite a lot more than what's normal, so I'll let someone else comment on how much to use!

I find this too but some lotion bars need it.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Right-o. I've just remelted mine and made a bigger batch, thus reducing the fragrance load. After using a sample from the original batch for a week I can say that it does work as a lotion bar, although I can't say that I'm sold on the idea of using a bar over a lotion (other than the advantage of reduction in plastics for recycling).
My original recipe was 45% soy wax, 30% Shea Butter, 10 CO, 10% Apricot Kernel, 4% Meadowfoam Oil with a titch of ROE and FO to make up the difference.
I have decided that the soy wax is too draggy - and so for the remelt i have adjusted ratios, removing 5% from the soy wax and adding it to the AKO and Meadowfoam.
Any advice from more knowledgeable peeps on a) dragginess and how to reduce it and b) anything else you think I might want to try?

 

[Juggsy]

Change your oils and butters and waxes. ..... something less greasy feeling like babassu oil will make a massive difference. Or try an ester - I love esters - they are freaking magic! Once you've started using them you won't look back - well you'll look back on the inferior products you made (speaking from experience). Cheap and easily assessible ones to start .... isopropyl myristate (IPM) or C12-15 alkyl benzoate, both of which are silky. Light.
I also add dimethicone to mine because silicones really help with Drag. You can use like cetearyl alchohol etc. to. something like tucuma butter will help with dragginess and glide.... something like.... 75% tucuma butter 5% stearic acid 2% IPM 7% super light oil 1% dimethicone 8.75% mango butter then cool down 0.5 Vitamin E and 0.75 fragrance - there's been recent studies that show adding over 1% vitamin E can increase rancidity. So the recommended amount has changed to "up to 1%" I've changed all my formulas to 0.5%

but if you go by the 33% rule ( 33 wax 33 butter 33 oil + 1 Vit E) - remember carnauba wax is 80% of that 33% and Candelilla wax is 50-60% (60 if using more oils and softer butters)

 

[KiwiMoose]

but if you go by the 33% rule ( 33 wax 33 butter 33 oil + 1 Vit E) - remember carnauba wax is 80% of that 33% and Candelilla wax is 50-60% (60 if using more oils and softer butters)

Not sure that i get what you mean by that - Carnauba wax is 80% of 33%? If that is literally what you mean, then I understand it as I would add another 20% of the 33% of something else to make up the wax component. I prefer not to use carnauba wax as it is palm derived and I would prefer not to go down the road of adding anything too chemically if I can help it. But I do have a truckload of cetyl alcohol here that will take me years to use up in my shampoo bars, so that's an option. I can get brassica alcohols. I can get rice-bran wax and vee-wax. Maybe I should try some of those? I just thought I would try lotion bars out and I liked the sound of @Zing 's simple 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but it's now starting to sound very complicated. As i say, I don't know that I'm sold on the idea of a bar instead of a lotion anyways...

 

[Juggsy]

Not sure that i get what you mean by that - Carnauba wax is 80% of 33%? If that is literally what you mean, then I understand it as I would add another 20% of the 33% of something else to make up the wax component. I prefer not to use carnauba wax as it is palm derived and I would prefer not to go down the road of adding anything too chemically if I can help it. But I do have a truckload of cetyl alcohol here that will take me years to use up in my shampoo bars, so that's an option. I can get brassica alcohols. I can get rice-bran wax and vee-wax. Maybe I should try some of those? I just thought I would try lotion bars out and I liked the sound of @Zing 's simple 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but it's now starting to sound very complicated. As i say, I don't know that I'm sold on the idea of a bar instead of a lotion anyways...

Sorry, if I made it seem complicated. It's not once you understand the parts (does that make sense), it's kind of like finding the soap you like. It's really a personal choice.

I like experimenting though....

But..
The one third rule is correct. And, so yes: 80% of 33% (so what 26.6?) And candelilla would be something like 18-20%

33% rule will work with beeswax and it's most subs. But some substitutes need more, some need less.

I honestly didn't mean to confuse you, sometimes I forget that too much information is overwhelming.
It is isn't a complicated thing at all.

I don't like soy wax in my LB formulas but have got fair trade organic carnuaba wax and candelilla wax in my store. Love both of them.
I do believe that ecosystems need to be protected and sustainability is most important. I too have issues with palm tree production but carnuaba palms unlike other palms, the whole palm gets used. It's often referred to the tree of life in Brazil as they even use the seeds for coffee like stuff. I know the one I get comes with certification. I absolutely agree palm oil production isn't great (try to avoid or choose responsibly) but nor is soy or several other industries. I just try to get ones that are RSPO and fairtrade. I figure I'm doing my part. We can only do what we can.

I do think mango, babassu, tucuma, illipe are better than Shea and Cocoa Butters but that's obviously a personal opinion. I do find that Shea seems to be draggy.

If you cannot bring yourself to do them and you have cetearyl alcohol you can make a very basic cream - if you use a stainless steel container you can send to get properly sterilised or you can do it yourself if you just are using yourself. Or glass bottles

If you wanted to stick with soy, I would maybe reduce it and add a butter like illipe and a couple of light oils. If reducing soy wax to 33 keep your butters at 33 and oil 33 - add your ROE and fragrance. Change your shea as your oils all seem quite light.

Let me know if I've just confused you more.

 

[DMack]

@Angie Gail I'm an evangelist for making lotion bars and have tried many recipes. The super cool thing is that experimenting is so easy and the results are nearly instantaneous -- unlike making soap! I've made a batch of lotion bars, wanted it "harder" so re-melted and added more beeswax, and vice-versa wanting it softer and adding more oil.

My basic recipe is 1/3 each of beeswax, shea or cocoa butter, coconut oil, scented with an essential oil at 1% of oil weight (or check on eocalc.com). From that theme are many variations. For example, in place of coconut oil I've subbed any combination of sweet almond oil, jojoba oil, meadowfoam seed oil, etc.

Have fun with it and keep us posted!

I used your recipe @Zing and can attest to how nice it feels. A little also goes a very long way. I used too much initially and didn’t like it as too greasy but once I used less it felt better and absorbed more easily. Thanks Zing

 

[mutinyintl]

This has been a fun read! I'm about to experiment with some lotion bars this weekend at the request of some of my customers/testers. Took me a minute to realize what you meant by "post"

 

[Zing]

This has been a fun read! I'm about to experiment with some lotion bars this weekend at the request of some of my customers/testers. Took me a minute to realize what you meant by "post"

Hurray! Another convert!

 

[maxine289]

I especially like esters. I use isopropyl myristate in mine at about 5%.

I want to use isopropyl myristate but don't know how to measure the amount. I often see usage rates of things given as a percentage, like you did, but what is it a percentage of? Of the entire recipe weight before adding the isopropyl myristate? Or 5% of the recipe after the isopropyl myristate is added in (which would reduce the percentages of all the other ingredients from their original amounts, correct?)?

 

[linne1gi]

I want to use isopropyl myristate but don't know how to measure the amount. I often see usage rates of things given as a percentage, like you did, but what is it a percentage of? Of the entire recipe weight before adding the isopropyl myristate? Or 5% of the recipe after the isopropyl myristate is added in (which would reduce the percentages of all the other ingredients from their original amounts, correct?)?

Usally lotion bars are made up of a hard fat like Cocoa Butter, a liquid fat like Almond Oil, and Beeswax. A good starting place is 33% of each. Depending on where you live you may need more hard fat or beeswax, or more liquid oil. You could use Isopropyl Myristate for the liquid oil. It's a lovely oil with a great skin feel.

 

[TheGecko]

I want to use isopropyl myristate but don't know how to measure the amount. I often see usage rates of things given as a percentage, like you did, but what is it a percentage of? Of the entire recipe weight before adding the isopropyl myristate? Or 5% of the recipe after the isopropyl myristate is added in (which would reduce the percentages of all the other ingredients from their original amounts, correct?)?

Yes, it can be confusing because it depends on what you are making. For a soap recipe, percentages are based on Weight of Oils because not everyone uses the same Lye Concentration. For 'cosmetics'...technically Lotion Bars fall under that...it is usually batch weight.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Hi lotion bar pals! Mango butter - refined or unrefined?
I used refined from BB for my first batches and loved it. Then wanted more asap without the BB wait and shipping cost so I got some from Amazon and it’s unrefined. What can I expect and do I need to do anything special to it?

 

[Carly B]

Hi lotion bar pals! Mango butter - refined or unrefined?
I used refined from BB for my first batches and loved it. Then wanted more asap without the BB wait and shipping cost so I got some from Amazon and it’s unrefined. What can I expect and do I need to do anything special to it?

I've gotten unrefined mango butter from Amazon, and also the refined stuff from BB. I don't find a whole lot of different is how they behave. Unrefined mango butter doesn't have an odor that I noticed, unlike unrefined cocoa butter or shea butter.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Thanks @Carly B

Hey ya @Zing - anything to chime in, oh wise sensei of lotion bars?