Looking for advices

[Susie]

I am going to preface this statement with the fact that I do not sell soap. So truly I have no monetary stake in this discussion.

However, bad soap being sold affects everyone. We have people here who DO rely on soap sales for income. My own (ex) in-laws would not use my hand made soap because someone sold bad, young soap. Why did they sell it when it was bad and too young? I don't know. But maybe if someone had told them that they needed to take the time to learn how to make soap properly and wait for a proper cure, they might not have. How remiss would we be then to not tell them not to sell soap until they knew what they were doing, and knew why a proper cure was important?

Then there are the people that do not want to know truth. They want to brag about this or that. Or they want to know the answer to THIS question only. Not what makes that question irrelevant, or why that question truly exposes how little they know. Nor do they want to know the rest of the info. And they especially do not want to know why that idea is bad. Should we kowtow to those people, or should we put true information out there for the lurkers and the people who really do want to know the true process and good practices? Where do you think we should draw the line, exactly? I am going to tell the truth. I do not call anyone names, nor do I attack them personally. I am simply trying to tell people how to make soap properly.

 

[Dahila]

People if you are looking for advice and can not take the true, move to fb group, they post there so much nonsense you will fit there.
Then if you want to get help stay here, To be on forums sometimes you read what you do not like it,
Newbies are a problem for professionals, They sell bad soap and that person is not going to give a try to another. So I am losing potential customers, Do you have any idea how difficult is to convince people that my soap is gentle and good? Tons of samples, which do not come free to me, i had to sacrifice many bars of soap for sampling. Many printed pages so I could put info on my small samples bag.
The market is very competitive and If you not up to it, take crocheting ....
The nonsense of "insulting" fragile newbies, just pissed me off, You want to learn. give yourself a chance, I am first time on forum that is so helpful , it is worth for me to support it, We have tons of people sharing, their knowledge and you guys do not know internet and other forums if you think it is not newbies friendly...
Excuse me. I see it everyday, people sell soap and have no idea what Superfat is, I see it on markets. Guy selling rancid (DOS) bars and he does not know that soap is garbage

 

[cmzaha]

I made my own on a spreadsheet and I can work it out on paper if I want to. I can calculate any size, any amount of oils, any percentage, and any oil much faster then a website since I know the SAP values. It also tells me that the more water you use in making soap, the less oil and lye you use to turn into soap. It is very accurate and I don't have near the problems I use to especially with soap freezing up on me.

Thanks for your concern though. I actually make very good soap. It is in the design department that could use some work. My best 2 loafs right off the bat I can think of is one that I made look like wood (cedar wood EO) and one that looked like the sky the day of the eclipse recently. It actually had the sun peeking out of the clouds with a blue background. I called it Picasso's eclipse.
I do have pics that I might post.

I find just one little problem with the comment, "since I know the SAP value, without testing each and every batch of oils you use you do not know the actual SAP value, which also changes with age of the oil, so we all work with average SAP values per oil. SAP values are not set in stone.

People if you are looking for advice and can not take the true, move to fb group, they post there so much nonsense you will fit there.
Then if you want to get help stay here, To be on forums sometimes you read what you do not like it,
Newbies are a problem for professionals, They sell bad soap and that person is not going to give a try to another. So I am losing potential customers, Do you have any idea how difficult is to convince people that my soap is gentle and good? Tons of samples, which do not come free to me, i had to sacrifice many bars of soap for sampling. Many printed pages so I could put info on my small samples bag.
The market is very competitive and If you not up to it, take crocheting ....
The nonsense of "insulting" fragile newbies, just pissed me off, You want to learn. give yourself a chance, I am first time on forum that is so helpful , it is worth for me to support it, We have tons of people sharing, their knowledge and you guys do not know internet and other forums if you think it is not newbies friendly...
Excuse me. I see it everyday, people sell soap and have no idea what Superfat is, I see it on markets. Guy selling rancid (DOS) bars and he does not know that soap is garbage

I admit I am one of the first to say not to sell to soon, and admit I am one that probably did. I will take pride that I never sold "bad" soap and still have some of my original customers, but I did it out of desperation after losing our company. Would I sell the same soap today? Nope, it was good but not great. But there are people that literally sell "bad soap", and it does hurt all of us sellers. I recently watched a girl in her booth at one of my markets trying to de-mold a soap. When she finally got it out of the mold, she put it out to sell. This soap was so soft it stuck in the corners of the mold. I have seen soaps I could stick my finger through for sale at markets, what do you think that does for sales. So anyone that wants to learn proper soapmaking stick around and learn, there is a wealth of info here. If you want sugarcoating you may not want to stick around. I learned many lessons when I started on, over at The Dish forum and those gals do not sugar coat But over there you will find a wealth of info for lotion making with no sugar icing!

 

[SherylG]

I think you should give people as much helpful criticism as you are able to, if they ask for it. It should always be polite and respectful. Everyone is deserving of respect. Nothing that happens here should be personal.

Polite, respectful, positive, friendly and helpful advice is always welcome.
Most people are not going to listen to anything else and you will just alienate those who could be helped.

Gentle, respectful and friendly prodding works much better than a hammer.

 

[cmzaha]

I think you should give people as much helpful criticism as you are able to, if they ask for it. It should always be polite and respectful. Everyone is deserving of respect. Nothing that happens here should be personal.

Polite, respectful, positive, friendly and helpful advice is always welcome.
Most people are not going to listen to anything else and you will just alienate those who could be helped.

Gentle, respectful and friendly prodding works much better than a hammer.

Great in theory, but there are some that will never take any criticism as helpful. It is frankly very hard to be polite, sweet, sugary yada yada when we see many come in state bad info and get made when corrected. You want to learn, pull up the big girl, boy panties and learn. When I first started I had a gal in another forum pick apart my website and tell me in the forum what was wrong. I simply blocked her after telling her I did not pay her to police my website, did not move on. There was just to much knowledge available for me. On top of that I was new to any forums, but I survived and learned.

 

[Millie]

I finally read through this whole thread and necro-liked a bunch of posts from all sides of the debate. I can be a hothead here at times, and I am glad you all put up with me!

I appreciate a few blunt, direct responses (here and in life) followed by kindness and helpfulness. If I am doing something wrong, I want to know right away so I can fix it! Otherwise I am left with the shame of having repeatedly done something wrong for ages, because no one has had the guts to be direct with me.

I hope those here who are able to keep a level head in the hot button threads will step in sooner to help soften the impact of our direct replies. There are often beautiful, pacifying responses toward the end of these threads - thank you! I will try to craft more of these responses myself.

I often see those who wish to be kind admonishing the behavior of the hotheads, but it might help the original posters more to lead by example and direct some of that helpful spirit on them personally ie, "now that this issue has been covered, welcome, and how can I help with your original question?" Otherwise the effect is that we are all just bashing each other (with rainbows and love of course).

Yup, I totally see what I just did there. Love y'all

 

[psfred]

Lol, I'm a scientist by training. Believe me, I've not seen more than a post or two here that was anything like presenting my first research.

Every question I've had here was answered nicely. I've seen lots of "beginner" questions answered very nicely and with good, if occasionally blunt, information.

I have seen a few new members post multiple versions of the same question in various forums, refuse to agree with the answers they were given or the suggestions offered, then complain about the "rude" people on the forum.

Adults can manage critical remarks, especially when they are true.

Polite always works, but polite doesn't mean agreeing with people when they are wrong, it means telling them they are wrong without a personal attack, and I've seen VERY little of that from long term members.

 

[iwannasoap]

I find just one little problem with the comment, "since I know the SAP value, without testing each and every batch of oils you use you do not know the actual SAP value, which also changes with age of the oil, so we all work with average SAP values per oil. SAP values are not set in stone.

I use the SAP value from the manufacturer of the oil that I use. That is best! I buy all my oils from the same place. For instance, your olive oil that you use might be averaged out at .131. The oil I use is .135
Other wise, you are just using averaged out SAP values and it might not necessarily correct.
Getting back to OO. A soap calculator might or might not be correct.
Some lists that you find list OO at .131
Some calc's that you use might list Palm Kernel flakes at .176 (Wholesale Supplies Plus)
My manufacturer lists my Palm Kernel at .178
I am not trying to sound like a know it all but in my opinion it is best to get that value from the manufacturer or wholesaler thats in that business.

 

[psfred]

SAP will vary with source on any oil or fat, and sometimes with season, phases of the moon, or whatever.

A batch number will be more accurate than any calculator with average values, of course, but unless you are trying to make near zero superfat and don't want to age your soap, it won't matter very much. There is probably more variation in lye purity than in SAP value from the average values.

Keep a reasonable superfat level and you won't need to worry about very small differences in SAP values.

 

[cmzaha]

SAP will vary with source on any oil or fat, and sometimes with season, phases of the moon, or whatever.

A batch number will be more accurate than any calculator with average values, of course, but unless you are trying to make near zero superfat and don't want to age your soap, it won't matter very much. There is probably more variation in lye purity than in SAP value from the average values.

Keep a reasonable superfat level and you won't need to worry about very small differences in SAP values.

^^^ yep and there are times you cannot get a SAP value even from the supplier and/ or manufacturer. In soap calc I superfat at 1% which usually works out at 4% in Soapee. So without the exact Sap at the time of use and lye purity you cannot truly know what your superfat is. I do not like free oil going down my drains, but I do know even at 0% superfat I am not assured all oil is saponified only that I have less than many soaps