Liquid Soap Questions

[MissNewbie101]

Hello All!
This is my first time experimenting with liquid soap! I wanted to start easy so I purchased some soap base from brambleberry. http://www.brambleberry.com:80/High-Sud ... P4847.aspx I thought that this would be easy enough, but I guess I was wrong! hehehe...

So I wanted to test on a "little" batch before i made a "big" batch that way I wouldn't be to far out if something went wrong.
I noticed that the water evaporated very quickly and the paste didn't melt for quite a while...Soon I had to add more water (more than the 4:1 dilution rate) for fear my pot would burn. I ended up with a very watery batch of soap. To try to remedy this I added some salt water as recommended and it didn't help very much, but in turn made my soap a cloudy white color.
1. I am wondering if this will be remedied if I make a bigger batch of soap? Maybe the water won't evaporate as quickly?
2. Is the 4:1 dilution rate at all reflecting how much soap will be in the finished product? (after taking into account evaporation)
3. I know the website says that it can take up to 8 hrs for the soap to fully dissolve. Do you by any chance know how big a recommended batch looks like so it wont take quite that long?
So I woke up this morning and the "little" batch of soap was all clumpy, even though It was basically water consistency last night.
4. When I make a bigger batch of liquid soap, will it clump after a couple hours, or will it be a normal consistency? Is there any way I can remedy this?

Thank you in advance!!

 

[kellistarr]

Hi, I'll try to answer some of your questions.

I always begin with weighing the amount of soap paste that I want to dilute. I don't usually bother with anything less than 8 0z. Therefore, I'm going to begin with at least 24 oz. of water. This does not include the extra added water that I'm going to add to neutralize the soap. I boil this water then add my soap paste and turn the burner down to low. I cover the pot to prevent as much evaporation as I can. I watch my pot and gradually will stir. Once my paste has melted ( for this small amount of soap it takes about 35-40 minutes; I find a lot depends on how the paste was prepared) if I find a skin on the soap, I'll add more water, I add small amounts of water, not exceeding 8 oz. until I no longer see the skin. Some people keep it (skin) in their soap, I don't like to. Since I've started with 8 oz. of soap paste, I like to end up with about 33-35 oz of diluted soap. (This total amount includes the extra water added to dilute neutralizer, which for me is borax).

I'm not sure why your soap was clumpy. It could have something to do with the oils used to make the soap paste or what you used for your neutralizer and/or thickener. I've never added salt water to my soap. I hope I've helped in some way.

 

[Hazel]

I suggest you call BB's customer service and ask them about the specifics of using the paste. I just made my first batch of LS the other day so I can't answer your questions. However, the soap paste I made did take several days to dissolve in the crockpot, But that's partially because I was concerned about adding too much water and didn't add enough each time I added water. It also didn't completely dissolve. I still had some small pieces floating in the crockpot. I'm not sure if it all should have dissolved but I'm not going to worry about it. Any paste that's left I'm going to scoop into a container and tell everyone to use the paste first. :wink:

The water shouldn't have evaporated. Did you leave the heat on? I turned the heat off after adding boiling water, covered the crockpot and let it sit overnight. Then repeated this the next day since I still had undissolved paste.

 

[MissNewbie101]

Thank you so much Kellistarr and Hazel! I appreciate your thorough replies very much! I will try again tomorrow!

 

[Hazel]

Please let us know how it turns out. I just checked some of the LS which I had poured into a mason jar. It's cooled and gotten thick again - kind of the consistency of honey. I'll have to add a little more water because I don't want it this thick. I'm getting a little frustrated because I really want to start playing with the FOs.

 

[kellistarr]

Miss Newbie, don't give up. I find that liquid soap takes a lot of experimentation but it can be quite fun. You'll learn little tricks that aren't written in any book. For example, I fragrance my soap with very little fragrance oil. I'm talking 1 oz. of fragrance per 32 oz. of soap! This small amount fragrances the soap but keeps it clear. If I want a stronger scent, I might add very tiny amounts. But I'm jumping ahead because you're trying to figure out dilution. You will get it, just keep playing around with it. Add small amounts of water because you can always add but you can't take away. Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

[MissNewbie101]

Thank you for your encouragement!
So my soap is currently on the stove. It has fully dissolved. I boiled 24 oz of water, and then added 8 oz of paste. Then I cooked on Low for 40 min.
I just opened the lid and my soap is VERY watery... Its like the consistency of water? I also see no skin.
I don't know what to do at this point, and I have no borax on hand. Should I add my remaining 8 oz of water? When will my soap start to thicken? I also read that glycerin can be a sustutute for borax in the thickening process? Has anyone tried this?
Sorry for all the questions! And thanks in advance!

 

[Hazel]

Is it still warm? You might want to wait to add more water since it thickens a little as it cools. But I'm not an expert - I'm just basing this on what I've seen with my batch. I can't answer your question about borax because I haven't used it.

 

[kellistarr]

I agree with Hazel, the soap thickens as it cools. It still may very well be the consistency of water, after all, there is nothing in it to thicken it up. Sometimes Borax will thicken as well as neutralize soap, but it depends on the ingredients of the soap paste. I always use Borax as the neutralizer but it does not always thicken my soap. You do need something to neutralize. Thickeners can include xanthan gum or Hec (find it on makingcosmetics.com or lotioncrafter. It's my favorite but the formulas are different and lotioncrafter Hec can be tricky). When making liquid soap it is not going to have the consistency of commercial liquid soap. It will most likely be watery. You will have to thicken it. Since you say that your soap is very watery, you could leave the top off and cook it a bit more. To try and get it to evaporate a bit, but, it will still be thin. The good thing about thickening is that you can do it later if you don't have any thickener on hand. Just reheat your soap and add your thickener at the temperature that the manufacturer tells you to. As far as the skin, well it's good that you don't see any. I do with my soaps but that may be due to the oils I use to make up the soap paste.

 

[Lindy]

Agree with the advice to call BB and ask about it. In general when I make LS I use my crockpot. As soon as I have a paste I start adding hot water. I've had it take a couple of days. Now when I go to bed I turn it off and then back on to low in the morning. Do not be tempted to use your SB to break it. Something else you can do is chunk up your paste into small pieces, this will help it dilute. I like using crothix and EZ Pearl to thicken up my soap and give it a pearlescent look. Make sure you soap is warm when adding FO, EO and colours.

 

[MissNewbie101]

Thank you so much for your answers!
My first batch did thicken after it cooled and borax was added. Overall I have learned that yes homemade liquid soap is a LOT more watery than commercial soap, but it works!
And thank you Hazel for you fragrancing tips! They worked perfectly! Since last week I am on my 6th batch of liquid soap! So far I have tried Eculyptus, Lemon, Lavender, Unscented, Orange, and Sweet Pea!
The next adventure is making liquid soap paste from scratch!
Thanks all!

 

[Hazel]

You're welcome but I'm not the one who mentioned how to use fragrance. It was kellistarr who gave the advice.

I'm glad it's working out for you!

 

[MissNewbie101]

Ooops sorry!
Yes, thank you Kellistarr!

 

[kellistarr]

MissNewbie, I'm glad things are working out. You sound really happy. Liquid Soap (LS) is as addicting as making bar soap as far as I'm concerned. Have Fun!

 

[Hazel]

I agree with kellistarr - LS making is addictive. I'm already planning my next batch.

 

[Sherry1956]

Diluting paste

I made my first batch of liquid soap paste. Here is where I am confused. I used a scale I found online about how much water but it was barely enough to cover the paste! What is the scale of oz of water per oz of paste? My first batch didn't turn out so I'm on to my next. I want to dilute 24 ounces of paste so how much water will I need approximately? I know it all depends on the oils but I need a starting point

 

[FlybyStardancer]

I've only made LS once, and I started with a 2:1 water:soap paste. That'll give you a 33.3% dilution IIRC. From what I've read, the most concentrated dilution you can get is pure coconut oil at 40%. If you want to start there, then divide you paste about by .4 to get the total volume, and then subtract your paste from that.

So given your paste amount, 24 divided by .4 is 60. That's what the final weight should be. Subtracting 24 from 60 will give you 36, which is how many oz water you would need to get that dilution.

Hope this helps!

 

[Sherry1956]

Thank you so much. I will have to study that. I'm usually pretty good at math but for some reason I'm being thrown off <lol>

 

[100%Natural]

I made my first batch of liquid soap paste. Here is where I am confused. I used a scale I found online about how much water but it was barely enough to cover the paste! What is the scale of oz of water per oz of paste? My first batch didn't turn out so I'm on to my next. I want to dilute 24 ounces of paste so how much water will I need approximately? I know it all depends on the oils but I need a starting point

Dilution rates depend highly upon the recipe and what you prefer for thickness in a finished product.

The easiest way without having to do too much math is to start with a 1:1 ratio. Example - 1 lb of paste to 1 lb water. See what you end up with and go from there. Too thick? Add another .5 - 1 lb water and check the thickness. Keep adding water until you reach your desired thickness.

Better to start out too thick than too thin. Water is easily added. Thickening can be a trick and a half depending on your recipe.

Take lots of notes and even more notes on exactly how much water you have added for dilution so it's easy peasy the next time around.

 

[Sherry1956]

Thank you 100% Natural. I started out this morning before reading this thread. I used 32 oz boiling water and added 16 oz of paste....a 2:1 ratio. After reading your post I went and looked and realized that I had too much water so I added another 16 oz of paste, giving me a 1:1 ratio like you explained. Good thing I didn't use all the paste! My thoughts are why are people using Borax as a thickening & Neutralizing? agent when you can add more paste? Not trying to be a smarty pants and I may be way off base here as this is my first experience at making liquid soap; but I don't like the thought of using Borax. I use that in my laundry soap .