Just The Facts, Please

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Hi everyone, I'm new and vegetarian and I wanted to chime in on this subject. What Grumpy Owl said I agree with and while I don't ever plan on using lard or tallow in my soap I am in agreement that the entire animal should be used so it doesn't go to waste.

But for me, I am vehemently against factory farming which is where most of the meat comes from and every dollar I spend towards meat or eggs (my BF is a carnivore) is spent consciously avoiding that industry. I refuse to support it, no matter how minute, and that's why I will never use or buy lard or tallow soap. Not because I'm pig-headed or uneducated. If you use humanely raised and butchered lard or tallow I applaud you and give you respect.

I wanted to throw that view out there since no one voiced that part of the issue. I wrote an article about Factory Farming if anyone would like to read it, I'm not going to link it yet so you guys don't think I'm pushing an agenda or anything.

Welcome.

Would you buy a soap made with lard or tallow from animals humanely raised and butchered?

 

[alexiso]

Welcome alexiso.

I don't think there's anything wrong with posting it, people can click or not. Speaking for myself only I think most omnivores have issues with people who are "militant vegans." People can choose whatever they want to eat. It's the folks that tell me how disgusting they think my choice is that I have issues with. It would be the same as if I called what you do disgusting. Now I hope the teasing doesn't put you off, because it is just that, but I am 100% behind personal choice!

I have the same views on "militant vegans" I respect all choices that people make to feed themselves. I choose to be vegetarian and I recognize that that's my personal choice and not everyone agrees with it.

On the flipside I've dealt with "militant carnivores" and do not like how they treat my personal choice or marginalize it. I've been a vegetarian for 10 years and this is the most common response "How are you still alive?"

That's neither here nor there, I just wanted to add another reason to ponder about the tallow/lard discussion. If it's ok per forum rules here is the link to my article, if it violates anything let me know and I'll remove.

http://theflounce.com/fight-back-factory-farming-can-help-kill-industry/

Edited: I did not take offense to the comments in this thread - forgot to add that!

Welcome.

Would you buy a soap made with lard or tallow from animals humanely raised and butchered?

I'm on the fence if I would still purchase the soap for myself. If my boyfriend like the humane soap best, I would purchase it for him, if the seller had other soap offerings or products I would definitely support them with my business.

I'm curious to know how one would go about labeling their humane soap or if they'd put a snippet on their website explaining their resources so the consumer can check it out for themselves. I'm a person that doesn't buy based on label-claims alone so if x's website says it's humane, I'd want to know how and why.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Aye, it would be hard to know if it was really from a good source. I think one would have to put something on the website but it would be hard to actually confirm it

 

[alexiso]

Aye, it would be hard to know if it was really from a good source. I think one would have to put something on the website but it would be hard to actually confirm it

I agree. I think if they advertised they purchased their fats from a card-carrying Certified Humane source or maybe a local family farm that has info on their website about their practices that could help. Other than that it's only on the trust system.

Thanks for listening!

 

[LBussy]

I have been purchasing my tallow from a family I actually knew of when I lived in UT. They are in a small community and have a small butcher shop appendant to the ranch. I honestly don't know what "certified humane" is but the cows looked like they had it pretty good, and a friend used to work that ranch so I have some second-hand knowledge of their practices. They render the tallow; they are pretty much a "snout to hooves" place.

The lard I use is commercial. I have not had ... I'll call it "artisanally rendered lard" that was suitable for my soaps. I would use it if it were available, simply because I believe in supporting small business whenever possible/reasonable.

 

[alexiso]

I have been purchasing my tallow from a family I actually knew of when I lived in UT. They are in a small community and have a small butcher shop appendant to the ranch. I honestly don't know what "certified humane" is but the cows looked like they had it pretty good, and a friend used to work that ranch so I have some second-hand knowledge of their practices.

That's great to hear! Certified Humane is a third party organization, independent of the government, that ensures kinder treatment of farm animals with a thorough application and inspection process.

 

[Fairy]

I don't think there's any right or wrong when it comes to animal fats or vegetable oils. I personally use vegetable oils in my soaps mainly because lard grosses me out. I grew up in an Eastern European family and I was never really keen on eating all of the animal. The thought of head cheese is nauseating to me even today.

Another reason is because I'm opposed to factory farming, but there are other ways to protest the cruelty of animals. To be honest, I'd rather use a homemade bar of soap made with tallow than a commercial soap with so many drying chemicals.

 

[LBussy]

To be honest, I'd rather use a homemade bar of soap made with tallow than a commercial soap with so many drying chemicals.

To tell a secret: I use my shave soap and make bar soap for/with my wife, but I use syndet liquid myself. One of these days I'll make the change.

Oh, and Welcome!

 

[Susie]

I have the same views on "militant vegans" I respect all choices that people make to feed themselves. I choose to be vegetarian and I recognize that that's my personal choice and not everyone agrees with it.

On the flipside I've dealt with "militant carnivores" and do not like how they treat my personal choice or marginalize it. I've been a vegetarian for 10 years and this is the most common response "How are you still alive?"

That's neither here nor there, I just wanted to add another reason to ponder about the tallow/lard discussion. If it's ok per forum rules here is the link to my article, if it violates anything let me know and I'll remove.

http://theflounce.com/fight-back-factory-farming-can-help-kill-industry/

Edited: I did not take offense to the comments in this thread - forgot to add that!

I hate to wade in on this, but I have had just about enough of being labelled as a carnivore. If you get to choose to refer to your choice as vegetarian or vegan, then we get to choose how you refer to us. We are omnivores. We eat both vegetable matter and meats. If you continue to refer to my choice as a carnivore, I will begin referring to you as an herbivore. Which is the appropriate term for an animal that only eats vegetable matter.

 

[wetshavingproducts]

I respect how other people choose to live their life, as long as it does not impact negatively upon me or society, but I resent anyone trying to impart upon me their own moral choices about topics that are simply a personal choice and have nothing to do with the betterment of society etc.

 

[CanaDawn]

I'm not sure we have dwindling resources. We may have economic policies that cause less to be produced however.

You are only using the term "resources" to refer to produced goods. Not a biologist, I assume....

If you take a drive through the nation's heartland there's no lack of resources. Other countries? Sure, but you know different habitats are a way of life for animals. They move when their habitat is unsuitable.

hmm.....well...only if they are capable of doing so, sort of like humans.....however animals are often far more constrained to a specific habitat and are unable to shift....grassland birds will not survive in a boreal forest, fish do very poorly in tundra....

I live in the suburbs and on my way to work I will pass as many cattle as I will see in my office today if not a whole lot more.

Cattle are a whole different discussion. They are very destructive to grassland, and a lot of forest has been cleared for their production. Obviously if one assumes they are equal to a natural resource, this argument will seem odd. Many cattle do NOT equate to a healthy ecosystem - usually quite the opposite, although the are a "resource" to the cattle producer, I suppose. Again, it's clear you aren't a biologist.

If you continue to refer to my choice as a carnivore, I will begin referring to you as an herbivore. Which is the appropriate term for an animal that only eats vegetable matter.

Hilarious, in that I can't see how being called a herbivore would insult a vegetarian one bit, although you seem horribly offended at the term carnivore....I agree it is likely inaccurate, and omnivore would be correct. That is the appropriate term for an animal that eats both plant and animal matter.

 

[LBussy]

You are only using the term "resources" to refer to produced goods. Not a biologist, I assume.... [...] Again, it's clear you aren't a biologist.

I think I'm going to go ahead and log off for a few days. There seems to be a propensity for elitism going on right now that's not conducive to healthy discussion.

Smiley faces don't make your condescension better.

 

[CanaDawn]

I think I'm going to go ahead and log off for a few days. There seems to be a propensity for elitism going on right now that's not conducive to healthy discussion.

Smiley faces don't make your condescension better.

Not being condescending...but it's true that biologists would have an entirely different view of resources and cattle than expressed, as well as a completely different knowledge of how animals are able to change habitat. Please go ahead and do what is right for you, although I have NO idea how my comment was elitist. I AM a biologist, and I find your point of view so vastly different to mine and those of my colleagues. Not being condescending, at least not intentionally - so I apologise if that was how my comments came across to you. I was only intending to speak from another point of view, re "resources" as you had when opining that we aren't short of them.

 

[Susie]

Hilarious, in that I can't see how being called a herbivore would insult a vegetarian one bit, although you seem horribly offended at the term carnivore....I agree it is likely inaccurate, and omnivore would be correct. That is the appropriate term for an animal that eats both plant and animal matter.

That is what I said, right?

 

[CanaDawn]

That is what I said, right?

I just thought you were suggesting that the term "herbivore" would be offensive to a vegetarian. My mistake if not.

 

[alexiso]

I hate to wade in on this, but I have had just about enough of being labelled as a carnivore. If you get to choose to refer to your choice as vegetarian or vegan, then we get to choose how you refer to us. We are omnivores. We eat both vegetable matter and meats. If you continue to refer to my choice as a carnivore, I will begin referring to you as an herbivore. Which is the appropriate term for an animal that only eats vegetable matter.

Yikes, man. This is like my third post, I don't know you and didn't realize the verbiage offended you. I will keep that in mind next time.

 

[Susie]

You have, yet again, missed the point.

 

[CanaDawn]

You have, yet again, missed the point.

Please do not start picking a fight, yet again. There is no fight here to be had. I found amusement from your post. I apologise if I didn't see it as you intended.

 

[Lindy]

This thread is closed.