Is there a way to fix crumbling soap (not lye heavy)?

[thessalystra]

Hello everyone. I'm new to soapmaking. I made this soap yesterday, and it turned out crumbly and powdery. I tried the zap test and it is fine. It's not too hard to cut either. The bottom part is still a bit soft, even.

I put activated charcoal in it, and it seems like the last batch I made with activated charcoal (not the same design though) was also a bit dry and crumbly. Is it the charcoal the problem?

I admit I didn't use thermometer when soapmaking. But I made sure the lye solution was my-brother-in-fever temperature (39-40 C).

What went wrong? Should I wait before cutting it further? Can I save the batch?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[basti]

Can you share the recipe you used to make this soap? : )

 

[thessalystra]

Olive oil 125gr
Palm Oil 200gr
Coconut Oil 100gr
Lye 59.3gr
Water 161gr

I didn't use any water discount because i wanted to make a wood-grain design.
I used charcoal and TiO2 as additive and colorant.

 

[AliOop]

That's a WHOLE lot of water - about 27% lye concentration. That's why your soap is still pretty soft and crumbly, and is getting so much soda ash on it (the charcoal often contributes to that, too).

I'm guessing that you used the water-as-percent-of-oils setting? I recommend that you try the lye concentration next time, and set it to 33%. That's more than enough water for a fluid batter, especially if you soap at lower temps. With that setting, you also don't have to think about "water discounts" either; you just make the lye concentration higher for less water, or lower for more water.

 

[thessalystra]

I recommend that you try the lye concentration next time, and set it to 33%

Thanks a lot. I will try it next time. <3

I was wondering if charcoal is the culprit because the other batches of soap didn't have this problem. But I also mixed them to thin/medium trace for those batches, and only to emulsion for this charcoal one. (Was praying the whole time that the oil wouldn't separate.)

I'll post again when I get the second batch done. Thanks.

 

[AliOop]

I would say charcoal and the TD are definitely causing some problems, too. How much of each did you use?

 

[thessalystra]

I would say charcoal and the TD are definitely causing some problems, too. How much of each did you use?

1tsp in 1tbs of oil for both. I used all my TD but not the charcoal since I was afraid it'd be too dark.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Pretty soap! I'm sorry it didn't come out as it should. You were smart to make a small 425g batch. That's the advice we give to most Newbies. Make as many small batches as you can, as often as you can, and you will be soaping with the best of us in about 4 months time!

Olive oil 125gr
Palm Oil 200gr
Coconut Oil 100gr
Lye 59.3gr
Water 161gr

I didn't use any water discount because i wanted to make a wood-grain design.
I used charcoal and TiO2 as additive and colorant.

Your recipe looks fine. I often use SoapCalc Default Settings when trying a new recipe. No problem. I see no reason why it did what it did. That being said, I'm guessing the batch was soaped too cool and perhaps not thoroughly blended before pouring. ?

TIP: When I have more hard oils (70%) than liquid oils (30%) as your recipe does, I heat the hard oils first to 120° - 135°F (49°- 57° C). until clear and fully melted. Then I add the liquid oil to warm it to soaping temp.

I also use "full water", i.e., 38% Water as % of Oils. It works for me with recipes high in hard oils, contrary to others who use 30-33% Lye Concentrarion or 2:1 Water to Lye . I only switch when I feel the recipe calls for it.
For example, Zany's No Slime Castile that is high in Olive Oil uses 1.7 : 1 Water to Lye Ratio.

NOTE: Since you used the Water as % of Oils setting, you have enough water to grate your batch up, dump it in a stainless steel pot, cover it and put it in the oven preheated to 250° for 1 hour. At the end of the hour, it should be molten enough to stir and pour into the mold. Unfortunately it will ruin your design but worth the trouble for un-crumbly soap! (See Oven Rebatch)

Also, regular Palm Oil may well be the reason the stearic acid settled to the bottom, causing it to crumble when cut, from soaping too cool. Palm Oil is known to separate in its container. Thus the whole container needs to be heated up before extracting the amount needed for the batch.

TIP: I do that when the Palm first arrives. I then pour into smaller portions for later use as needed.

HTH

 

[AliOop]

1tsp in 1tbs of oil for both. I used all my TD but not the charcoal since I was afraid it'd be too dark.

That's not a whole lot of TD or charcoal. It's almost certainly the excessive amount of water that you used in this batch. For CP soap, a more typical lye concentration would be 33%, and you used 27%. You also had 6%SF before taking into account 2 additional tablespoons of oil in a very small batch of soap. All together, that's a pretty high SF, which will make the soap soft, too.

Also, I do normally blend just to emulsion, and that's a nice skill to practice when you want to be swirling. But if you are going to use that much water, and that much SF, you need to bring your batter to trace for sure. Even so, you will most likely need to leave it in the mold for several days. You could speed up the the hardening/unmolding time by CPOPing, or putting it on a heating pad. But honestly, it's much easier to increase your lye concentration.

 

[thessalystra]

Thank you very much everyone.

I'll try soaping at higher temp too, because the last two batches didn't even go through gel phase. (And definitely buy a thermometer.)

I'll try the water discount as well. My other "good batches" still have soda ash on top, though not as bad as this one. Hopefully the lye concentration will help with that.

❤❤❤

 

[AliOop]

I'll try the water discount as well.

Hopefully you understand that I'm not suggesting a water discount per se.

I'm suggesting that you use a completely different setting to measure your lye and water.

Instead of Water as Percent of Oils, use Lye Concentration and set it to 33%. This will give you a very average amount of water, not discounted. What you were using was excessive. Hope that clarifies!

 

[thessalystra]

Hopefully you understand that I'm not suggesting a water discount per se.

I'm suggesting that you use a completely different setting to measure your lye and water.

Instead of Water as Percent of Oils, use Lye Concentration and set it to 33%. This will give you a very average amount of water, not discounted. What you were using was excessive. Hope that clarifies!

Noted.
I went to lyecalc to adjust the setting. Thank you.

 

[AliOop]

Awesome, we are all looking forward to seeing your next batch of soap, @thessalystra. You got this!

 

[glendam]

Forcing gel in the oven fixed this problem for me, my problem was that I was working in low temperatures and may have experienced false trace. l

 

[AliOop]

Forcing gel in the oven fixed this problem for me, my problem was that I was working in low temperatures and may have experienced false trace. l

Great suggestion, @glendam! I use a heating pad, but same principle.