"I will PAY you to teach me!"

[amd]

In regards to the idea that our recipes are magically unique and no on could duplicate them -I wholly heartedly agree. It's one thing to not want to share, it's another to believe someone else already hasn't done it, or couldn't duplicate it with an ingredient list - and probably to about 90% accuracy if not more. I've never been brave enough to share that opinion because there are so many here who guard their recipes ( though most seem to more out of "paternal" pride more than fear of exploitation)

And if anyone ever needs an idea for a challenge/swap...:think:

I'm not sure I agree with "magically unique". When I create a recipe I run it through the Google Machine. I almost always find my recipe done somewhere else. If it's a blog/article I can read the comments, dig further into that individuals blog (if that's the case) to see if there's any follow up on how the soap performed after making. I have found a few responsible soapers who leave comments either on their own posts or with follow-up posts who say "this happened to my soap, so I've changed my recipe". Anyways, my point is... if you think your recipe is one of a kind, it might not be. Unless you have a patent on that thing, it's not yours.

I love people who share their things - like Shari. She shares her salt bar recipe that she sells in her store. I bought one of her salt bars (LOVE!) and tried making a few batches with her recipe, but salt bars aren't my thing. It's too much babysitting. I know how they're made, but I am perfectly happy to buy my salt bars from her. I think this is how a lot of people approach soapmaking - they want to know how, they might even attempt it once after they know how, but very few are going to become regulars.

This realization made me decide to do the brown bag lunch at work (not until after the new year though) as a demonstration on how to make soap and not a class. Thanks to the discussion here, I am going to put together some handouts for anyone who wants to take it further (where to get local supplies for a grocery store soap, where to get supplies online, and where to go for more [good] information... maybe even a "soap myths debunked" handout).

 

[dixiedragon]

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to share a recipe, whether we're talking soap or food. I don't have a problem with somebody thinking their recipe is special and unique. But I don't think it's rude to request a recipe, and I DO have a problem when people respond rudely to a simple request. It's just as easy to say, "There are a lot of great recipes on Brambleberry's site. They're a great vendor." Or "Check out Soap Making Forum. Lots of info there!" You can still be polite and helpful while also keeping your special recipe secret.

 

[Spice]

I agree with TEG. The forum is for sharing and helping others. I find those that just pop in once in a blue moon with cocky, arrogant, non-helpful responses really need to just stay away as they bring nothing positive to the forum.

I feel those are the folks that really have nothing much to offer.

It's sad that many just come here for their own agenda and then disappear into the smoke until it suits them to come back. I see folks just come here to get answers and not provide anything positive to the forum more than I would like to.

Fortunately there are way more folks that are kind and helpful and share their vast amount of knowledge. And I personally think this is one of the best ones out there.

I sometimes feel very stupid when I read of the way some members talk about ratios, master batching, pencil lines, and all the issues that goes on with soap. I have seen beautiful soaps and just dream that one day I can be that great. I am barely learning what to do, and rarely can give good answers. My thanks to shunt and all those that who read my questions and gives me answers. Happy Thanksgiving.:wave:

 

[Arimara]

I sometimes feel very stupid when I read of the way some members talk about ratios, master batching, pencil lines, and all the issues that goes on with soap. I have seen beautiful soaps and just dream that one day I can be that great. I am barely learning what to do, and rarely can give good answers. My thanks to shunt and all those that who read my questions and gives me answers. Happy Thanksgiving.:wave:

You shouldn't feel stupid at all. As long as you have input on something that can possibly be of use, why not share it. Even if you're asking questions, many a times, someone else may not have thought to ask.

 

[gigisiguenza]

^^^^ what they said

Never feel stupid. Always ask if you're curious. And always offer what you have to contribute. This place seems to have been built on the open minded thinker model, so there's room for all trains of thought

 

[lenarenee]

Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it.

Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!! (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together. Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!

Well. Since she didn't want to learn to use a soap calculator, and since I "don't have time" to soap with her....she's on her own. She's spent a boatload of money on tons of stuff (except her own lye!), so she can now use it. Without me. Oh...and she wants to use my cardstock to wrap her soap with too. (almost let her...due to the fact that her soaps have a lot of curing left to do....and a lot of shrinking!! But I didn't, cause then her soaps were going to look just like mine ....and she'll take credit for all of it!

 

[Misschief]

Ouch... that's nerve

 

[gigisiguenza]

Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it.

Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!! (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together. Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!

Well. Since she didn't want to learn to use a soap calculator, and since I "don't have time" to soap with her....she's on her own. She's spent a boatload of money on tons of stuff (except her own lye!), so she can now use it. Without me. Oh...and she wants to use my cardstock to wrap her soap with too. (almost let her...due to the fact that her soaps have a lot of curing left to do....and a lot of shrinking!! But I didn't, cause then her soaps were going to look just like mine ....and she'll take credit for all of it!

This precisely the kind of people who have been asking me to teach them and exactly why I say no. It's not that I don't want to share. I would adore having a local soaping friend to soap with and enjoy this skill with. But I'm not going to waste my time on someone who neither respects the craft itself or really wants to learn it.

I'm sorry she did that to you Lena.

 

[dixiedragon]

@ Lenaree - wow! What a jerk! (I would like to use stronger language, but not sure if that's okay here.) What a user. That would have me seriously re-evaluating my relationship with that person.

I've made soap with several friends and acquaintances and never had that happen! They were not interested in learning enough to make it by themselves, they just wanted to hang out, pick a color and a scent, and learn about it. They were delightful and one slipped me $40 as she left as a "thank you". (which I tried to give back, but she wouldn't take it!)

 

[penelopejane]

Maybe you should teach people to soap with a generic recipe like: 30% CO, 30% OO, 30% PO and 10% castor oil. Rather than your own special recipe until you know what the person is going to be like?

 

[nsmar4211]

Or grab some of the premixed bags o batter from Brambleberry? Then you have somewhere to direct them to pick up supplies........

One thing I've learned is even if I had the exact recipe, my results will be different. Whether due to the high humidity here, my crockpot heating differently (HP), my stickblender turning ever slightly slower, my mold having x number of batches in it, etc....it won't be exactly the same . And hey, you can share a recipe....for $70! Or whatever price .

"Super secret" always makes me put my wallet away... I'd rather hear "I spend four hours babysitting herbs in oil to make this soap" personally (as a buyer)

 

[lenarenee]

I'm not sure I agree with "magically unique". When I create a recipe I run it through the Google Machine. I almost always find my recipe done somewhere else. If it's a blog/article I can read the comments, dig further into that individuals blog (if that's the case) to see if there's any follow up on how the soap performed after making. I have found a few responsible soapers who leave comments either on their own posts or with follow-up posts who say "this happened to my soap, so I've changed my recipe". Anyways, my point is... if you think your recipe is one of a kind, it might not be. Unless you have a patent on that thing, it's not yours.

I love people who share their things - like Shari. She shares her salt bar recipe that she sells in her store. I bought one of her salt bars (LOVE!) and tried making a few batches with her recipe, but salt bars aren't my thing. It's too much babysitting. I know how they're made, but I am perfectly happy to buy my salt bars from her. I think this is how a lot of people approach soapmaking - they want to know how, they might even attempt it once after they know how, but very few are going to become regulars.

This realization made me decide to do the brown bag lunch at work (not until after the new year though) as a demonstration on how to make soap and not a class. Thanks to the discussion here, I am going to put together some handouts for anyone who wants to take it further (where to get local supplies for a grocery store soap, where to get supplies online, and where to go for more [good] information... maybe even a "soap myths debunked" handout).

Wow oh wow, I totally screwed the up! It should read that I do not think think our recipes are unique....that somewhere in the world someone has made an exact or nearly exact copy of the recipe! Sorry everyone, I bet that post didn't make any sense.

Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it.

Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!! (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together. Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!

Well. Since she didn't want to learn to use a soap calculator, and since I "don't have time" to soap with her....she's on her own. She's spent a boatload of money on tons of stuff (except her own lye!), so she can now use it. Without me. Oh...and she wants to use my cardstock to wrap her soap with too. (almost let her...due to the fact that her soaps have a lot of curing left to do....and a lot of shrinking!! But I didn't, cause then her soaps were going to look just like mine ....and she'll take credit for all of it!

I'm not sure I've made myself clear so I'm going to add: I don't have a problem sharing my recipes....except when people are lying to their friends and family that they carefully created it over months of practice!! And passing off MY soaps as their own!

 

[dixiedragon]

I'm not sure I've made myself clear so I'm going to add: I don't have a problem sharing my recipes....except when people are lying to their friends and family that they carefully created it over months of practice!! And passing off MY soaps as their own!

I got that part, it was totally clear. My sister likes to make goodie bags for her co-workers. She picks out a scent and a color scheme, then she sits and chats while I mix the soap. I do make her help me pour, though! :mrgreen:

She tells her co-workers that her sister made it and she helped.

 

[lenarenee]

I got that part, it was totally clear. My sister likes to make goodie bags for her co-workers. She picks out a scent and a color scheme, then she sits and chats while I mix the soap. I do make her help me pour, though! :mrgreen:

She tells her co-workers that her sister made it and she helped.

I hear supervising is hard work!

 

[RDak]

FWIW, I only give away soaps and the family uses them at home. Never sold soap.

I have many people ask for what recipe they should start out with and I always keep it simple.

50% lard/tallow/palm or even grocery shortening (their choice), 30% OO and 20% CO.

They have always been happy with that simple recipe.

 

[mandy318]

I wanted to come back to this thread and share a quote I stumbled across. This is more concisely what I meant to communicate in the OP. I think you have to start the path of learning--not just learning to soap, but learning about mostly anything, by learning the "rules". Once you learn the rules, you can begin to innovate. Even for someone who just wants to learn how to make "a" soap, rather than learn how to soap, if its not approached with an attitude of willingness to research and read and do the "boring" work of understanding the chemistry, that person will always be a little lost when they have a problem or a batch doesn't turn out how they expected. They won't know what they don't know!

 

[lsg]

May I add that practice, practice, practice lends to learning and understanding of how things work together, even for the lay person.

 

[sonoransoapnmadness]

Mandy, did you ever find out more about what your friend wanted? And have you come to a decision? After Lenaree's experience, it seems doubly important to clarify.

 

[mandy318]

I didn't. My friend was actually my now former boss. After I changed jobs now I don't see her at all. But--she recently got her hands on a bunch of beef tallow and had said she would render me some, so really that might be a good time to invite her to make the soap with me. I'll come back and update when that happens!

 

[Arimara]

I wanted to come back to this thread and share a quote I stumbled across. This is more concisely what I meant to communicate in the OP. I think you have to start the path of learning--not just learning to soap, but learning about mostly anything, by learning the "rules". Once you learn the rules, you can begin to innovate. Even for someone who just wants to learn how to make "a" soap, rather than learn how to soap, if its not approached with an attitude of willingness to research and read and do the "boring" work of understanding the chemistry, that person will always be a little lost when they have a problem or a batch doesn't turn out how they expected. They won't know what they don't know!

I deliberately made soap in 200g batches. It indeed showed me all the problems people have said could arise from doing that but I considered it a good lesson. massive soda ash was the least of my problems (4 out of 6 bars out of 3 batches I made were safely gelled. the others, due to my not wanting them around my kid and space constraints, were disposed of.

I am glad to know that so far, lye heavy soap can feel like a brick.