You can kill that top layer of bubbles with a few sprays of rubbing alcohol. If you would take a pic in the morning, I would appreciate it. I am rather concerned about the middle layer on that soap.
I Hate to Ask, but I'm Confused
- Thread starter BrewerGeorge
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BrewerGeorge
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I didn't get a pic before leaving for work, but the three layers are still there - although the two top ones are about 1/3 the size of the pic. The whole thing is cool and the clear soap is much more viscous. I'm guessing it cooled too much before it all incorporated? Should I reheat without disturbing it?
ETA: Also, is it too late to add sodium citrate? I forgot yesterday.
Don't add sodium citrate yet, don't try to re-mix yet, either. I am afraid that the middle layer is oils (superfats) that separated. If so, we will have to have you add some additional KOH and water to bring them together. Or maybe some PS80. IrishLass will have to step in here and help troubleshoot. I don't use either product, I'm afraid.
I haven't had good results adding citrate to diluted soap -- it turned the LS milky the times I tried it. But give it a go with a small sample of your LS once it's properly diluted and see what happens -- I might have made an error.
I'd add EDTA to diluted soap, however -- I know that doesn't change the appearance or texture.
Tip -- get the soap paste diluted first with plain distilled water, no fragrance. After you KNOW the soap is diluted properly and no problems, THEN add scent. This has two benefits -- one is there is absolutely no interference from the scent while the soap is being diluted, because EOs and FOs can cause texture and color changes. The other is the fun of adding a variety of fragrances to different portions of the diluted soap, if you like.
Susie -- I'm hoping that middle layer is just chunky bits of paste that have yet to dissolve, but yeah I am a wee bit worried too.
I'd add EDTA to diluted soap, however -- I know that doesn't change the appearance or texture.
Tip -- get the soap paste diluted first with plain distilled water, no fragrance. After you KNOW the soap is diluted properly and no problems, THEN add scent. This has two benefits -- one is there is absolutely no interference from the scent while the soap is being diluted, because EOs and FOs can cause texture and color changes. The other is the fun of adding a variety of fragrances to different portions of the diluted soap, if you like.
Susie -- I'm hoping that middle layer is just chunky bits of paste that have yet to dissolve, but yeah I am a wee bit worried too.
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BrewerGeorge
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I didn't mess with it this morning other than to look at it, but I thought the middle layer was undissolved paste from when I chopped it up with the SB.
Is it possible to have foam/lather on top of oil?
Is it possible to have foam/lather on top of oil?
If you used a SB, then yes the middle layer could be chunky bits of soap paste that have yet to dilute. If it were me in a hurry, I'd add a bit more water and see if that helps, but if you have the time, I'd wait for Susie to contribute her opinion on what to do next.
Yes it's possible to have foam on top of that middle layer from the fatty acids if that's the situation -- fatty acids can form a foam if agitated. Also the SB will froth up the diluted soap underneath to form a sticky, fairly stable soap foam like that.
Yes it's possible to have foam on top of that middle layer from the fatty acids if that's the situation -- fatty acids can form a foam if agitated. Also the SB will froth up the diluted soap underneath to form a sticky, fairly stable soap foam like that.
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Here's a pic a couple hours after dilution. Hopefully it will be uniformly clear-ish by tomorrow. It doesn't look like it's going to clear completely, probably because of the litsea without PS80, but we'll see.
And if it looks extra orange, that's because I used my bargain CO with the beta carotene.
Thanks, All!
This reminds me of that Jello that came out when I was a kid.
Yes- when in doubt, starting with a lower amount of water is best. .75:1 works for me to get a honey-like thickness, but it might not work out the same or be as thick/thin as others might prefer.
Misschief said:
Actually, I found out that hard way one day that you can take it out.
One of my dilutions from a few years ago came out a little thinner than I liked, and so I dumped it all into a pot and heated it on low until I was satisfied with the viscosity. I made sure to weigh everything before and after so that I knew how much water evaporated out. BrewerGeorge- I agree with DeeAna- it's best to never add the FO or EO when diluting. Always save the scent for last. I always mix my scent into my finished soap right before I bottle it.
From where I'm sitting, that middle layer looks like oil, or maybe EO mixed with a blob of undiluted soap paste. If it were me, I would poke at it with a chopstick to see how firm it is. If it is firm, more water is needed to dilute it.
If that middle layer is soft/liquidy/oily, that means that you have separation on your hands. PS80 will do the trick of solubizing it into the mix. I'd add PS80 @ .5 mL at a time until things hold together, letting the soap sit for a little bit after each addition. Remember to takes notes of everything you add!
I've never added citric acid to mine, so I have no advice there.
IrishLass
BrewerGeorge
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Well, I missed the advice to save the scent for last, apparently. I'll chalk that up to lessons learned.
I couldn't make it home for lunch as I'd planned so I'll post a new pic this evening, but even this morning the stratification was MUCH less than the pic from last night. I certainly hope it's not the EO; I only put 4 grams into the final batch of 350 g.
I'm still having a heck of a time finding PS80 at a price I'm willing to pay. I just got a big box of soaping supplies - like Tuesday just - and I don't need anything else for a while. Buying the PS80 alone online is problematic because I'm simply psychologically incapable of paying more to ship something than it costs in the first place.
I couldn't make it home for lunch as I'd planned so I'll post a new pic this evening, but even this morning the stratification was MUCH less than the pic from last night. I certainly hope it's not the EO; I only put 4 grams into the final batch of 350 g.
I'm still having a heck of a time finding PS80 at a price I'm willing to pay. I just got a big box of soaping supplies - like Tuesday just - and I don't need anything else for a while. Buying the PS80 alone online is problematic because I'm simply psychologically incapable of paying more to ship something than it costs in the first place.
RE; the PS80: Someone on the forum was recently saying that when they are running low on PS80 and don't want to wait for shipping, they sometimes are able to buy some from their local bakery (food-grade PS80 often used in many food-stuffs), and that it works fine for them (I'll see if I can find the post). If you have a local bakery, it might be worth a try.
Edited to add: found it!. Hahaha, it was Serene responding to a post by you: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58315
IrishLass
Edited to add: found it!. Hahaha, it was Serene responding to a post by you: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58315
IrishLass
BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
RE; the PS80: Someone on the forum was recently saying that when they are running low on PS80 and don't want to wait for shipping, they sometimes are able to buy some from their local bakery (food-grade PS80 often used in many food-stuffs), and that it works fine for them (I'll see if I can find the post). If you have a local bakery, it might be worth a try.
Edited to add: found it!. Hahaha, it was Serene responding to a post by you: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58315
IrishLass
Hehe, yeah I saw that. Unfortunately the only "bakery" near me is a Panera seemingly run by high school kids. Might have to venture into Indianapolis over the weekend and see what I can find.
"...I only put 4 grams into the final batch of 350 g...."
If the EO was going to affect the texture, then that amount is definitely enough to do the trick. It doesn't take much. I'm not saying the EO did cause trouble, just saying it could. Here's more info: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51237
If the EO was going to affect the texture, then that amount is definitely enough to do the trick. It doesn't take much. I'm not saying the EO did cause trouble, just saying it could. Here's more info: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51237
BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
Here it is now:
It really feels like undissolved soap - like spongy taffy. I removed some of the lighter stuff without the clear and it does lather the same way as the clear by itself. Nothing tastes zappy, feels oily or has a slick on top.
What I did last night was take it out of the water bath after the paste had softened and blend it with the SB. It turned into light yellow froth at that point. However, I put it on the counter to cool after that instead of going back into the bath, and I'm guessing that it cooled down before it had a chance to fully dissolve. On that presumption, I've stirred it back up (spoon, not SB) and put it back into a water bath.
It really feels like undissolved soap - like spongy taffy. I removed some of the lighter stuff without the clear and it does lather the same way as the clear by itself. Nothing tastes zappy, feels oily or has a slick on top.
What I did last night was take it out of the water bath after the paste had softened and blend it with the SB. It turned into light yellow froth at that point. However, I put it on the counter to cool after that instead of going back into the bath, and I'm guessing that it cooled down before it had a chance to fully dissolve. On that presumption, I've stirred it back up (spoon, not SB) and put it back into a water bath.
You are going to need some more water if that is what you are left with now. See if hitting it with the SB will help before you start adding water, though. Then, if you still have spongy stuff with or without lumps, add a very small amount of water at the time, think 14-15 g at the time, and wait half an hour minimum before the next addition. Keep good notes.
I updated my Post #2 above to reflect some of the ideas given in these later comments.
It's still a basic, simple KISS (Keep It Simple, Soaper!) method of making liquid soap. You won't find any of the enhancements and refinements that Susie and IL have shared in their many tutorials and posts on liquid soaping. I'm hoping this pared-down set of instructions will encourage people to try these ladies' no-cook no-misery method of liquid soap making.
It's still a basic, simple KISS (Keep It Simple, Soaper!) method of making liquid soap. You won't find any of the enhancements and refinements that Susie and IL have shared in their many tutorials and posts on liquid soaping. I'm hoping this pared-down set of instructions will encourage people to try these ladies' no-cook no-misery method of liquid soap making.
BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
We have Liquid Soap!
I added about 10ml of water, twice over the night and stirred as Susie suggested, but mostly just let it simmer in a shimmering pot of water for a good 4 hours or so. There is still a bit of a tough skin - like a gravy skin - on top, but I poured under it. We'll see if that gets absorbed over the weeks until I need to refill the bottle.
It's not quite perfectly clear as you can see, but I'm pretty happy with it as a first try. If I can figure out that dilution step to be a little less effort- and natural gas- intensive, I may continue doing liquid soaps after all.
Thanks for all the help IrishLass, DeeAnna, Susie, et al. I couldn't have done it without you!
I added about 10ml of water, twice over the night and stirred as Susie suggested, but mostly just let it simmer in a shimmering pot of water for a good 4 hours or so. There is still a bit of a tough skin - like a gravy skin - on top, but I poured under it. We'll see if that gets absorbed over the weeks until I need to refill the bottle.
It's not quite perfectly clear as you can see, but I'm pretty happy with it as a first try. If I can figure out that dilution step to be a little less effort- and natural gas- intensive, I may continue doing liquid soaps after all.
Thanks for all the help IrishLass, DeeAnna, Susie, et al. I couldn't have done it without you!
You don't have to cook it so much. Just start with the correct amount of water next time. That should cut your trial and error time out completely.
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
Nice work, BG, and congrats! I don't really care if my LS is clear or opaque. Once it's zap-less I'm good so I think it looks terrific.
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The soap looks great - nice gold color too.
How thick or thin is it?
How thick or thin is it?
Looks beautiful! 
IrishLass
IrishLass
